Protest against Israel's actions in The Mid-East in Wellington

Great stuff, but does anyone believe this makes any sense?

'Israel to end the occupation of territories it captured in 1967, and subsequent wars, to facilitate the establishment of a viable and independent Palestinian state'

How can a viable state exist on such tiny non-contiguous parcels of land? You're talking about a Bantustan. And why should Arabs continue to be second class citizens in Israel, which is what they'll always be in a Jewish state?

I think the protest movement prompted by the latest war should give some serious thought to backing a one-state solution of a secular, democratic, bicultural Palestine.

The problem ..........

With comments like that (and I beleive them to be sincere) you change the argument. No longer is the objection to that ACTIONS of the Israelis but their existence.

Now I understand the reasoning. Essentially the case being made is that even if the Israelis were not oppressing the Palestinians (allowed them to form their state on all of Gaza and the West Bank) it wouldn't be enough. The Palestinains would NEED to be able to cross the border and have jobs in Israel, would NEED transhipment of goods via Israeli ports, would NEED transit routes across (it's really a long way around via Egypt and Jordan neither of which are actually friendly to the Palestinians). And they would LOSE these things as soon as some of them continiued to attack. Which everybody knows would happen (internal politics).

You are of course free to decide that if in this situation there can be no peace for the Palestinins unless Isreal is eliminated and of these two peoples you prefer the survivors to be the Palestinians. I am of course free to decide the opposite. We can choose to be partisans in this conflict.

Just don't bitch about consequences. What you may not be taking into account is the relative priority you assign to this matter compared to the priority assigned to it by the "Zionists". Don't complain if there are repurcusions affecting all your other issues.

Don't be silly Mike, nobody here called for the elimination of the Israelis, you are deliberatly twisting words in order to have an argument, or to vilify your opponents.

Calling for an end to the Israeli government or Israeli state is not the same as demanding the destruction of the Israeli people. Would you have accused everyone who wanted to see the demise of the Soviet Union as advocating the wiping out of the Russian people?

"It's a lot of land, but mostly worthless desert" - and yet, the israeli government insists on confiscating this land from the bedouin who live on it and giving it to jewish farmers on the condition that they keep bedouin off the land.

i'm not arguing for the elimination of israeli people. i said israel should stop being a zionist state. that means a state where all jews, and only jews, are allowed to immigrate, and where non-jews are treated like second class citizens.

the problem with splitting palestine into an israeli and palestinian state is that palestinians who were expelled from their homes in 1948 have a right to return to their homes, regardless of whether they're in the israeli or palestinian side of the border. 'giving' palestinians the negev isn't a solution, and would add to dispossession of the indigenous inhabitants of that area.

i stand by the no-state solution whereby jews, muslims and christians share the middle east in a federation of free communes, kibbutz's and co-operatives.

And what does history suggest about the ability of authoritarian "revolutionary" states to bring about true free communism?

well, since you asked...

i support palestinian self determination. that means the freedom to determine what form that self determination takes.

if it comes down to choosing between a one or two state solution, as an israeli i'd prefer a one state solution. i don't want israel to continue to exist as a supposedly jewish state. i'm also not naive enough to believe that jews and palestinians could suddenly coexist as if the last 60 years never happened.