Stop the War Machine!

"Darren Kemp" you some kind of Freak ? Why don't we just let the Islamic take over the world. Now would you be happy then? No more Christians or Jews left for them to worry about.

This person Darren Kemp,
I wonder if he is a Pimp.

Anti-Bush Pretzels will be handed out in Garden place at 4pm, Saturday in Hamilton, all welcome to come and join in! Wear a costume!

Just added Hamilton and Dunedin events to the feature. If we've missed things, post them in a comment and we'll add them.

Is there anything happeneing in Te Swamp? (Palmy North)

SORRY! Pretzels for Peace is in fact:

FRIDAY 5.30pm, Garden Place, wear a costume (As a Terrorist or Freedom Fighter(Army)) we'll be near the fountain..

contact me for more info..seditious1968(no spam)gmail.com

please update.

Free Iraq from the O p p r e s s o r!
(US TERRORIST Alien Forces)
the mass killer of innocent civilians.
I pray for the People, peace in the Middle East.
STOP THE WAR!

We know that killing bush won't solve anything, we are giving out free dumpstered pretzels and playing on peoples distrust of bush to get them on side with us against the occupation and join us.

If I had my way we would be forming worker Militias and appropriating military weapons and planes to fly over there and really liberate Iraq (After liberating ourselves from the imperialist beehive and capatalist overlords of course.) I work towards this goal, this is my tactic to work towards this.

But unlike you, we know humour and free stuff will win people over, not the same tired slogans being repeated through a loudhailer and attempts to sell the lumpen prole a photocopied 'paper' ranting about the revolution.

How about you try organizing a half decent event in Hamilton and have more than just your sad little party of dead white guy fetishists turn up?

Destroy the Borders!
No Nations!
For the freedom of ALL prisoners (human and nonhuman)!
Smash all military bases and spy stations!
Victory to Resistance aganist Patriarchy!
Victory to Resistance aganist Speciescism!
Victory to Feral resistance!
Destroy Civilization!
Green Anarchist Revolution!

Anyone here got any more info on the CHCH eventz?
I'm all for this, but "peace circle" just makes me think I have to turn up with some incence sticks.

Don't break rifles or pray for peace, support the Iraqi workers using rifles to kill GIs:
http://indymedia.org.nz/newswire/display/42540/index.php

Yet another stirling contribution by Wot A Waste Of Time (WAWOT): Kill more GI's

Perhaps the CWG would like to run this one by the mothers of dead GI's like Cindy Sheehan who as you know fully understands the reality of the war and is at the forefront of the US anti-war movement.

Do you even ever stop and think about your slogans or are you really just agents-provocateurs?

Imagine a US worker whose unemployed son enlists in the reserve then finds themselves of in Iraq and then ends up dead. So now that worker has a personal experience of the war - decides its not a good thing and campaigns against it.

They might even accept that it’s the Iraqis right to defend their own country from occupation.
But wait - here comes the "CWGer" who stunningly well thought out contribution is: kill more GI's, and immediately a trajectory towards a consistent anti-war position is turned on its head by someone who feels the need to incite more murder of more mothers sons.

Lucky for a "CWGer" they are probably not a working class person who will ever have to face the reality of their kids having no other avenue than joining the military.
And as they are safe in the background, they will also never have to face the mothers of those who do.

Doubtless, they will also not feel he need to have to think about formulating a action call that recognises an actually developing social dynamic and develops it, rather than stalls it.

Oops, pity too that the CWG are unaware of the consistent Marxist position on the military (as opposed to the peacenik one). That's the position where despite recognising the military as a oppressive apparatus of state power, Marxists do not oppose entry into it, in order that anti-war propaganda and action can be taken to the frontline (mainly working class) troops.
But how could they have a position to engage with the rank-and-file of the military at the same time as calling for more dead soldiers?

Wrong on slogans, wrong on tactics and wrong in the head.

But then the science of materialism tells us that in a broad sense class position influences class outlook.
Evidently the radicalising petty bourgeoisie who group in the CWG finds it hard to throw off their ideological baggage in the absence of a dynamic workers movement that forces them to.

dunedin had around 80 people march up the main street liberating(as opposed to occupying) one lane of the road while gaining lots of citizenry attention, stopping outside labours office, anz, and mcdonalds for talks on how the occupation of iraq is good for their business. lots of noise and leaflets were shared around. end message.

Dave Says: “IWD hides behind a self professed Marxism to condemn the killing of GIs in Iraq."

(Sorry Dave, your lot are the ones calling themselves “Marxists”, I’m just reminding you of the traditional Marxist position).

Dave says: “But what is this Marxism when you don’t know which side you are on? It is Iraq that got invaded right? War is a bloody business. Many GIs have defected, refused orders and got out. Good. Those who remain killing Iraqis are the enemy. Get that straight. Yes of course Marxists try to win the rank and file over."

(Calling for, more dead GI’s should help with this)

Dave Says: “We have produced leaflets calling on NZ military rank and file to reject the war, but if they go we call for their defeat, including death."

(“Agree with us or we call for your death” – hmm, now that would be a “transitional” demand, right?)

Dave says: “Some US soldiers in Iraq are organising against the war. You are asking Iraqi fighters to differentiate between these resisters and the bastards who enjoy killing? Not realistic. Should the Iraqis pause to ask the GIs if they had a job back home or what their mothers think before launching the rockets? The GIs don't do them the same favour."

(During the Second World War it is estimated that only 10-20% of field combatants fired purposeful shots at the enemy. Many did not, or just fired in the general direction for the benefit of their officers. In the first imperialist world war not only were desertions and insurrection not infrequent, soldiers fraternised across the lines, and on one celebrated occasion broke off fighting for Xmas celebrations and a game of football. During Vietnam US soldiers refused to fight on mass, refused active duty tours and fragged their officers. – assuming this conflict is no different, doesn’t this mean that maybee some GI’s do give the Iraqi’s “ the same favour”?)

Dave says: “Yours is a western chauvinist attitude towards imperialist war. You want to shift the front line from Iraq and pin your hopes and the western anti-war movement."

(Recent quote, "It would be a sad day in Bagdad, if the Iraqis had to rely on the well-meaning citizens of CHCH to liberate their country").

Dave says: “Yet even you would have to admit that what really drives US attitudes against war is body bags.”

(Huh?, What about all those millions, that opposed the war prior to it starting Dave?)

Dave says: “That's where Cindy Sheehan came from. They begin to ask: what the fuck are our sons and daughters getting killed for? Freedom? Democracy? Oil? Only then does the class consciousness begin to develop”.

(No that’s not class-consciousness, that’s a consciousness about how best not to get their kids killed. Class conciousness arises when the discussion becomes a class analysis of society based on an understanding of the logic of capitalist accumulation and imperialisms drive to wars)

Dave says: “The Marxist position on Iraq is quite clear. Iraq is an oppressed nation. We all know the history. Marxists call for its victory against imperialism. We can rephrase that as 'defeating' imperialism, or 'defending' Iraq if you like but it doesn’t change the reality."

(Well Dave, one correct assertion out of seven is a start. But of course there is a difference between calling for defeat imperialism /defend Iraq and the call for workers on one side to kill workers on the other.)

Dave says: "How can Iraq defend itself without the military defeat of the US invaders? How can that happen without Iraqis killing GIs and not the other way round?"

(If “military defeat’ is the only precondition for Iraq’s defence then it doesn’t leave much purpose in anti-war movements in the imperialist homelands does it? If you were really consistent, or even convinced by your own arguments you would be getting the next plane to Sammarra and taking all your comrades with you.

The fact that you aren’t, and haven’t for the last 3 years suggests you either think:
1) There is some purpose in a western anti-war movement or,
2) You are all too comfortable here to bother putting your beliefs into practise.

Assuming the first, then the task is to win over the NZ (and western) anti-war masses to purposeful organisation and action. Simultaneously the task is to build rank-and-file soldier anger against the war and its aims. And finally we need to mobilise the uncommitted workers and their supporters to an anti-war position.

Your stated positions are now: for more “dead GI’s” and “Nukes for Iran”.
I’m predicting once again that both these formulations go nowhere. They will not generate a groundswell of anger against the war, or lead workers or anyone else to organise in opposition to NZ’s involvement in it.
On the contrary, these slogans will alienate anti-war activists and drive them into the camps of those who profess “realistic” and pro-UN positions on the war at best, or convince them of the claims that the anti-war movement is composed of reactive anti-americans and ayatollah-supporters at worst.
“Pretzels against War” and “peace circle” type events will then increasingly be the case, and the socialist left will disappear up its own arse, as it has.)

But that’s just my opinion.
Perhaps WAWOT will prove us wrong.

Anti-war day in CHCH:

A tired collection of weary souls stood in a circle, listened to speakers, had prayers said over them and held hands to commemorate the Iraq-war dead.
Of the dozens of youth and bystanders who wandered over to see what it was all about - few bothered to stay for more than a minute or two, obviously unimpressed by all the standing around.
Speakers congratulated the crowd on the ‘impressive’ turnout, and everyone clapped quietly in agreement.
After fourty minutes of this even the participants looked bored, many wandering off to the pub.
Three years, 37,000 dead, a devastated country, and another in the sights later, there is little palpable anger here, only resignation. No stones were thrown, hardly even any epithets.

It would be a sad day in Bagdad, if the Iraqis had to rely on the well-meaning citizens of CHCH to liberate their country.

Shame to hear about the lack of enthusiasm in Chch and Auckland. I think that Big Pay Out rally in Auckland would have stolen a few "Would be" protesters, simply because they may have confused the two events.

To be quite honest if we had just stood around in a circle holding hands for 40 minutes in dunedin i would have gotten bored and wandered off too... this from a guy who helped organise the rally in dunedin. sorry guys. Militancy is as much an attractant as the actual purpose of the march - There are a lot of people who are pissed off with the state of the world and will take any excuse to vent that anger. peace circles just don't quite cut it i don't think.

I would ask what a CWGer was, but i don't know if the responce would be printable. They are dead wrong to say that our efforts are wasted. The resistance should be supported as you would support any national army fighting to repel a foreign invader. especially against such insurmountable odds as the iraqi resistance face.

Brilliant idea to join the BPO march afterward. That's another campaign which should be recieving way more media attention and public support than it currently is. If you don't know what i'm talking about check out www.supersizemypay.com