Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Leste
Anti-war protests took place in Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch this morning during the ANZAC Day dawn services. "ANZAC Day has ceased to be a day where we commit to 'never again', and has instead become nothing less than a celebration of the New Zealand military and the glorification of war. Lest we forget that the New Zealand military is currently engaged in combat in Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Leste. Lest we forget that the New Zealand military is currently deployed in 18 different missions around the world," wrote Peace Action Wellington.
In Auckland a silent but visible vigil marked ANZAC day in Auckland with protesters highlighting the ongoing involvement of New Zealand troops in unjust wars around the world. Protesters held a six meter long banner saying “Honor the dead; no more wars.”
Two people were arrested after protesters held banners and burnt New Zealand flags in Wellington. Around 15 people held big banners and used loud horns. The activists appeared in court the same day charged with obstruction, resisting arrest and offensive behaviour for allegedly burning the New Zealand flag. The Workers Party, whose members were arrested for burning the NZ flag in protest against NZ support for Imperialist wars in 2003/4, put out a solidarity statement. [ Wgtn ANZAC Day Leaflet ]
In Christchurch a banner was held saying "in remembrance of women and children raped and killed in wars" by the group 'Women in Black'.
Links: NZ Troops Out Now.org | Peace Action Wellington | Behind the ANZAC Myth
The group 'Radical Youth' organised the protest in Auckland. "Radical Youth is calling for the New Zealand government to honour the dead by not sending any more of our young men and women to fight in needless wars on foreign soil." After the service had finished the mixed feelings of the public were expressed with both gratitude and anger shown at our protest. Protester were approached by one man who was grateful for our stance on war. He had served in Afghanistan but had returned home and left the armed forces because the war was in his words 'bull shit'. [ Call-out | Report and Photos ]
Peace Action Wellington organised the protest at the cenotaph, also to publicise their new campaign NZTroopsOutNow.org. Around 15 activists held banners and handed out hundreds of leaflets were handed out. When former Secretary of Defence Graham Fortune started to speak, the group used horns and megaphones to make noise and burnt New Zealand flags. The cops, two had been around earlier, were there in no time and snatched two activists. It was pretty embarrassing for the police, and they were whispering to us to be quiet as they arrested the two, one of whom did not go very quietly. A few 30-40 year old men came and helped tackle some of the protestors and held one of the people arrested to a fence while the police dragged at his feet. Then more police arrived. [ Report and Photos ]
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Comments
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
good stuff!
hope everyone gets off their charges.
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
good stuff!
hope everyone gets off their charges.
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
i agree that we should make moves to prevent war but there is a time and a place for these protests. an anzac dawn service is niether a time or a place. anzac day does not glorify war but hits home what it does to people and countries. we are there to remeber the dead of these wars not to insult their memories my protesting. if not for these people we wouldnt have the freedom to protest in the first place
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
What freedom, ANZAC Day is used both in Australia & NZ to build its settler mythology and to legitimize the presence of NZ troops around the world. War mongering Imperialism then, War mongering Imperialism Now. Troops out of the Middle East, Troops out of the Pacific Haere Atu
Fantastic protest. Solidarity love and kaha to the arrestees.
Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timo
Fuck yeah! Nice analysis. :)
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
Check out the comment posted here... could do with some refutation I feel.
http://www.tv3.co.nz/tabid/184/articleID/25774/Default.aspx
I might reply soon... but it'd be good to show there's more support for peace than just one 'crackpot'.
Although to be honest I have a bit of an issue with the way the Wellington protesters in question went about it. I just think that poster on the TV3 site is way off target.
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
i agree that we should make moves to prevent war but there is a time and a place for these protests. an anzac dawn service is niether a time or a place. anzac day does not glorify war but hits home what it does to people and countries. we are there to remeber the dead of these wars not to insult their memories my protesting. if not for these people we wouldnt have the freedom to protest in the first place
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
the troops in the pacific are up there helping to prevent two countries from collapsing, they are peace keeping not starting a war. you people are too narrow minded to see that. shame on you for insulting the memories of the dead!
Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timo
is Tonga one of them? going to Tonga to keep the peace last year? bullshi! the king's peace for sure. they are fighting a war against the people.
NZ Troops out NOW! (.org)
Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timo
'peace keepers' do not promote peace. to believe that soldiers promote peace is to hold a very narrow understanding. conflict between a nation's people and it's rulers results in foreign rulers sending troops and other assistance to assist the embattled rulers in their subduing their people because the interests of rulers of different nations are similar. the interests of the ruled of different nations are also similar. restoring 'peace' is code for restoring the war the rulers wage everyday upon the people with economic means. against their war. against their peace.
Tim Blackheart
Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timo
countries do not collapse when rulers cannot maintain control of their people. countries do not collapse. when powerful elements run away from their agrieved people they leave a power vacuum which is consequently filled. if all the police, soldiers and politicians flew out of Aotearoa we would need to organise to have our needs met. this does not mean chaos unless we fail to organise. helping our neighbour's from collapsing is just code for a neighbour's elite under threat of being evicted by their people. collapse is an emotional word which evokes fear. understanding comes from education and communication and testing ideas in action. fear does not promote understanding or increasing awareness. distrust those who do not share their understanding and instead would have you fear. be a good citizen. do not think. leave it to the rich. they have your best interests at heart right? do they?
Tim Blackheart
Re: Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and
that would be communism! a model that can not exist in its intended form. if you pay attention to history you would know that! communist have no place here, get the hell out of our country you are not wanted here!
james
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
Did any of your ancestors fight in the wars?
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
by that i ment the troops out now protesters, i fully agree with the last comment
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
I'm 15 and will eventually join the army as an officer.
You bastards this is not about glorifying war. It is about the fallen men of New Zealand and Australia.
Yes there is a time for protest but why now, why on Aotearoa's day of remembrance. Your fore fathers would ashamed of you. My Dad was in Timor, Afghanistan and the Solomons not for war, but to keep the peace, which of course is why you protested isn't it...for peace!
this song is my favourite.
Maori Battalion march to victory
Maori Battalion staunch and true
Maori Battalion march to glory
Take the honour of the people with you
We will march, march, march to the enemy
And we'll fight right to the end.
For God! For King! And for Country!
AU - E! Ake, ake, kia kaha e!
28th Maori Battalion
Lest we forget
ANZAC's
Lest we forget
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
Bush Regime Strategic Thinkers/Advisers/Power Players Specialising In Asia Pacific
* RAND Corporation (funded by Pentagon particularly US Air Force; formerly chaired by Donald Rumsfeld with Zalmay Khalilzad as senior consultant);
* Council on Foreign Relations;
* Center for Security Policy (which is also identified with Rumsfeld) - headed by Frank J Gaffney Junior with eight top chief executive officers [CEOs] from defence contractors on its board);
* Carlyle Group (headed by Frank Carlucci, ex-Deputy Director of CIA and former Defense Secretary of Reagan; with former US President, George Bush Senior, and former Philippine President, Fidel Ramos, as Asian advisers). Carlyle is actually the US's 11th largest defence contractor with significant interests in Asia;
* Heritage Foundation (official Rightwing think tank of the Republican Party)
In 2001, RAND came up with a report, "The United States and Asia: Toward a New US Strategy and Force Posture" (Lead Author: Zalmay Khalilzad). This report recommends shifting US forces toward the Philippines, Guam, Southeast Asia and other countries close to Taiwan.
A year earlier, this think tank in a report, "The Role of Southeast Asia in US Strategy Toward China," also stressed that China's emergence as a major regional power over the next 10-15 years could intensify US-China competition in Southeast Asia and increase the potential for armed conflict. "Economic growth in the region, which is important to the economic security of the US, depends on preserving American presence and influence in the region and unrestricted access to sea lanes," RAND said.
The COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS, on the other hand, in a Memorandum to Bush in May 2001 ("The US and Southeast Asia: A Policy Agenda for the New Administration") argued for a more assertive US military stance in the region: "The (Bush) Administration should preserve a credible military presence and a viable regional training and support infrastructure" specifying "high-priority efforts" in the areas of "joint and combined military training exercises and individual and small group exchanges and training".
The HERITAGE FOUNDATION also said that the "war against terrorism" would ultimately be pursued in Southeast Asia with or without the express approval of local governments.
Again, PNAC envisions some specific operative plans for Asia Pacific:
* In Asia, deploying more troops to beef up the presence of 100,000 US forces to address new challenges for the 21st Century;
* Key to coping with the rise of China to great-power status is the increase in military strength in East Asia and Southeast Asia;
* A heightened US military presence in Southeast Asia will provide the core around which a de facto military coalition (a la the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation [NATO]) will be formed;
* Reduce the frequency of aircraft carrier presence in the Mediterranean and the Gulf while increasing US Navy presence in the Pacific;
* For this reason, it is preferable, for strategic and operational reasons, to create a second major home port for a carrier battle group in the southern Pacific - in the Philippines or Australia;
* Establish a network of "deployment bases" or "forward operating bases" to improve the ability to project force to outlying regions. Prepositioned materiel would speed the initial deployment and improve the sustainability of US forces when deployed for training, joint training with the host nation, or operations in time of crisis. (e.g. the Military Logistics Supply Agreement, between the US and the Philippines).
The CARLYLE GROUP, which is worth $US13.5 billion, a private empire which operates in the shadows of government, military and industry and spans three continents including Asia; owns companies making tanks, aircraft wings and other military hardware.
In the company are former US President George Bush Senior (head of the Asia advisory board); former British Prime Minister John Major; Frank Carlucci, who was President Reagan's Defense Secretary; former Philippines President Fidel Ramos (Asia advisory board); and other world leaders.
Carlyle has large investments and big acquisitions in South Korea, Taiwan and China. Carlyle has a $US4 million infrastructure project in the southern Philippine island of Basilan, part of the joint US/Philippine military exercise, Balikatan 02-1.
Summary
At this point, let me summarise that most public declarations and policy statements made by the US government emphasise that the targets of America's current security objectives are to prevent the rise of a regional hegemonic Power like China, "regime change" in North Korea for possession of weapons of mass destruction (WMDs), to wage war against "transnational terrorism" and insurgencies and other security threats.
But the secret reports, security strategies and doctrines of the US government that give emphasis on the use of military power reveal beyond reasonable doubt that the main objective is to consolidate and preserve US hegemony and domination in Asia Pacific and the whole world. The objective is to prolong Pax Americana through the 21st Century.
Current US Hegemonic Operations In Asia-Pacific
* US maintains the largest military command here (US Pacific Command [PACOM]). PACOM interacts with the armed forces of 14 of Asia Pacific's 45 countries;
* The number of US troops on land and afloat in the region has surpassed those forward deployed in Europe: 100,000 troops are based in Japan (60,000) and South Korea (37,000), with the rest in Guam, afloat or on various attachments.
* US-Japan alliance - the lynchpin of US security in the region, with Japan playing an increasingly aggressive role;
* Bilateral military alliances with Australia, Thailand and the Philippines; reinforced by access or basing agreements with Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong and Sri Lanka;
* A stronger military partnership with Australia;
* New strategic partnership with India and Pakistan;
* Plan to reinstall its military bases in Southeast Asia (either in the Philippines, Vietnam, Australia, Indonesia or Singapore)
* Laying the ground for a regional military alliance or treaty in the guise of fighting terrorism
The September 11, 2001 events, which ignited Bush's "war without borders" (or "Operation Enduring Freedom") were seized upon by Bush to reverse the decline of the US military presence in Asia Pacific and to aggressively assert US hegemonic interests. They:
- Opened the "second front" in Bush's "war without borders" using the Philippines as a template (or model) for greater military presence and power projection in the region. The Philippines will serve as the epicentre in the new US military strategy in the circumference of Asia Pacific.
- Increased military aid to Taiwan, Indonesia, the Philippines and other countries; increased arms sales;
- Increased military training and funds to support these;
- Increased "forward deployed forces" and enhanced their capability through the deployment of Special Operations Forces, covert operations, war materiel and other equipment;
- Launched offensive moves against North Korea, hastened plan to build a missile defence system in the Korean Peninsula.
Conclusion
US hegemony in Asia Pacific is a reality and is the concrete expression of an American Empire that is undergoing consolidation with a vision that will last through the 21st Century.
I submit that the debate on whether there is really US imperialism or a global American Empire should now be put to rest. In the United States itself, there is a growing advocacy or acceptance even in many conservative circles, institutions, think tanks, universities and media that there is indeed an American Empire. The only distinction which they want the world to believe is that, unlike empires in past centuries, this American Empire is "benign" and "benevolent" and is performing a role which no other nation can in order to preserve "democracy and freedom" across the globe and resist threats posed by "evils," "rogue regimes" and forces of radicalism.
But this American Empire is something the American people themselves loathe simply because they also suffer under the rule of the US oligarchs and their freedoms and civil liberties continue to be threatened. It is an empire imposed upon the world by America's ruling regime on behalf of corporate giants, the military-industrial-media complex, oil oligarchs and other elite interests. It is an empire that is supported by Rightwing power players, militarists, free market ideologues, Jewish neo-conservatives, leaders of the Christian and Catholic Right and anti-socialists. Under Bush the military-industrial complex is no longer invisible - it has become the most visible, most articulate and most aggressive driving force behind America's wars for world hegemony and domination today.
In order to preserve the American Empire that will rule the world for as long as can be sustained, the strategists and politico-military leaders of this grand project are more and more relying on the use of military power precisely because America's economic power is on the decline. America's Rightwing leaders and militarists believe that economic impositions through the instruments of the Bretton Woods institutions (the International Monetary Fund, World Bank, General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade-World Trade Organisation) no longer suffice to preserve American hegemony and domination of the world. With arrogance and self-righteousness, they believe that the American Empire cannot exist under current international law, ethical concepts, multilateralism and global institutions like the United Nations because of the constraints and impediments that these pose on America's will and action. To them, concepts of national sovereignty, territorial integrity, self-determination and dignity are just concepts best learned only in school. To them, the concept of Pax Americana should be asserted through unipolar military superiority, warlordism, aggression, moral absolutism and a global ideological offensive using US media oligopolies. Their ideological offensive centres on drumming up an apocalyptic conflict between "Good and Evil".
It is clear how this strategy is being applied in Asia Pacific and across the globe under the Bush Administration and I personally do not see any change coming even if Bush is no longer President of the United States. Using the pretext of "war against terrorism" and other so-called threats to the security of the region, the US government is increasingly and steadily deploying its forces, rebuilding its military bases, securing stronger and more reliable military alliances and security partnerships, gaining more access to ports, airfields and air spaces. But soon the combat missions that we now see in the Philippines, particularly in Mindanao, will be replicated throughout the Philippines, in Southeast Asia and other parts of the Asia Pacific. America's objective in Asia Pacific is to maintain a strong military power never seen before in the entire history of the region.
US military power in the region addresses the American Empire's strategic objectives to contain the rise of power competitors such as - but not limited to - China, and deter the growth of other threats to its hegemony including revolutionary movements and the rise of independent regimes.
Because Asia Pacific is a vast mass of land and sea territory with huge economic and geopolitical potentials, and because it is contiguous to the American mainland and its Pacific territories, this region remains of strategic interest to the United States. Without a strong power projection in Asia Pacific, America's drive for global hegemony and domination will be threatened.
To the peoples of Asia Pacific however the threat to their independence and security is and will always be US imperialism. So much blood has been spilled because of US imperialism, which has been asserting itself here for more than a century. The independence, sovereignty, freedom, self-determination and economic growth of many nations - including the possible reunification of countries divided by post-WW2 US intervention in the region - are always threatened because of US imperialism. Tensions and instabilities particularly in the Korean Peninsula, between China and Taiwan, and other hot spots in the region are heightened because of US interventionism.
But, just as the previous world wars led to the rise of independence and liberation movements throughout the world, the US "war on terrorism" has led to the reawakening of the peoples of Asia Pacific to the real threat to humanity. More and more peoples are standing up against US imperialism. Especially in Muslim countries, the "war against terrorism" is beginning to appear as a war against the world particularly against Muslims who oppose foreign domination. Today, the more US imperialism displays its arrogance and military power, the more resistance it will generate.
George Bush has declared a "war against terrorism" - a "war without borders" and without time limit. This, he said, is America's "war of the century." Let us instead turn America's "war of the century" into the "Century's War Against US Imperialism".
http://www.converge.org.nz/abc/pr28-84.html
Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timo
could you please tell me what this has to do with anzac day?
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
This comment of mine below was posted on another thread, but I'd like to apply it to the argunets on this one also.
____________________
I chose not to go to this demo, mostly, to be honest, because I have to get up early every other morning for work in a factory and being tired from various activities, wanted the rare chance to sleep in. I was also not sure if disruption of the ceremony was the most productive tactic. To be honest, I felt quite torn about whether I should go down or not.
However, I completely respect the choice of those who went to demonstrate. Whatever differences we have about tactics and details, I know they are sincerely anti corporate and anti war.
The politicians and editors and other capitalists who manipulate publilic opinion are not sincere. They are playing on peoples feelings for their own interests. They don't give two shits about the fallen; they only leech off their long forgotten agony. The protesters are actualy the ones according the dead proper respect.
The flag that was burnt today is a flag of imperialism.
The anti war movement can only suceed when it becomes a mass movement again and cannot be rebuilt just by a few small occasional protest actions. But those small actions are a part of that process and should be supported.
Don Franks
Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timo
go fuck yourself
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
Shame on you. Burning the flag that our people died for.....You think this will get your ideas across? You have let gone too far.
I for one would fully support the police dishing out an arse whipping on my behalf.
Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timo
anyone who gives their life for a FLAG (!!!) is a fucken idiot
Re: Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and
its not the flag they give there life for, it is what the flag symbolises, it symbolises our idividuality and independece as a nation aswell as or alliance with Great Britain.
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
Shame on you. Burning the flag that our people died for.....You think this will get your ideas across? You have let gone too far.
I for one would fully support the police dishing out an arse whipping on my behalf.
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
In the Pacific we have huge bases in Hawaii, Guam, Australia
Declaration: International Conference for the Abolition of Foreign Military Bases
Friday, 09 March 2007
Quito and Manta, Ecuador
We come together from 40 countries as grassroots activists from groups that promote women’s rights, indigenous sovereignty, environmental justice, human rights, and social justice. We come from social movements, peace movements, faith-based organizations, youth organizations, trade unions, and indigenous communities. We come from local, national, and international formations.
United by our struggle for justice, peace, self-determination of peoples and ecological sustainability, we have founded a network animated by the principles of solidarity, equality, openness, and respect for diversity.
Foreign military bases and all other infrastructure used for wars of aggression violate human rights; oppress all people, particularly indigenous peoples, African descendants, women and children; and destroy communities and the environment. They exact immeasurable consequences on the spiritual and psychological wellbeing of humankind. They are instruments of war that entrench militarization, colonialism, imperial policy, patriarchy, and racism. The United States-led illegal invasions and ongoing occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan were launched from and enabled by such bases. We call for the immediate withdrawal of all foreign troops from these lands and reject any planned attack against Iran.
We denounce the primary responsibility of the U.S. in the proliferation of foreign military bases, as well as the role of NATO, the European Union and other countries that have or host foreign military bases.
We call for the total abolition of all foreign military bases and all other infrastructure used for wars of aggression, including military operations, maneuvers, trainings, exercises, agreements, weapons in space, military laboratories and other forms of military interventions.
We demand an end to both the construction of new bases and the reinforcement of existing bases; an end to and cleanup of environmental contamination; an end to legal immunity and other privileges of foreign military personnel. We demand integral restauration and full and just compensation for social and environmental damages caused by these bases.
Our first act as an international network is to strengthen Ecuador�s commitment to terminate the agreement that permits the U.S. military to use the base in Manta beyond 2009. We commit to remain vigilant to ensure this victory.
We support and stand in solidarity with those who struggle for the abolition of all foreign military bases worldwide.
Foreign Military Bases Out Now!
Manta Si! Bases No!
http://www.no-bases.org/
Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timo
once again, nothing to do with anzac day or ever new zealand. that is what this is all about you narrow minded pricks
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
I find all this anzac day protesting offensive. Having an American spokesperson for the event is totally wrong. Peace Action my ass.
What do you know about Anzac Day Valerie? How many of your forebears fought or fell?
Many people would see this as an insult to our grandfathers and great grandfathers.
Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timo
war is not only about soldiers dien and glorious guys. nobody introduced a day to remember women being raped by soldiers in WWI, WWII, Vietnam etc.
Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timo
Valerie Morse is a New Zealander, whatever New Zealander means anyway.
What do you know about Valerie, mate?!
Re: Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and
i know valerie is a traitor to her country and is not fit to call herself a new zealander
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
Congratulations Valerie! I was at the Wellington service and can assure you that nothing your opponents could ever dream up would do as much damage to your cause as that stunt this morning. Keep up the bad work.
Che Guava
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
It is astonishing what chameleons we humans are.
One year we are ready to annihilate one another for the cause of the king, god and the country. The year next we gather with the former enemies at sites of peril and remember what we lost with some foolish notion that we actually gained something through the sacrifice. I abhor that pride that this tragic day is embellished with.
mr o
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
while i dont like the way that the protest was organised, i support the motivation people had to protest on anzac day.
Anzac day disgusts me. How dear the government, RSA etc re-write history. Its not even like everyone had a choice to fight. How many men were drafted and killed, wounded or mentally scarred from fighting in a rich man's war?
my grandad fought and was wounded in the pacific, and many of his friends died. If he was still alive he'd probably be pretty pissed off right now. But that doesnt make war right or honorable. My tupuna also fought against the colonial troops in the North Island. I guess, that history doesn't count.
Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timo
i would fight for the flag. which symbolises our freedom.
Seriously, what is wrong with some people? I understand the need for some to protest what they perceive our involvement in overseas areas of conflict to be, but to disrespect our veterans like the Wellington protesters did goes beyond belief. What kind of person blasts horns, burns a flag, etc. at a solemn occasion like the Dawn Service? What's more - they don't even have any shame about what they did.
http://www.geekzone.co.nz/lugh/2743
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
Here's a simple test:
Which upsets you more?
a) The fatal shooting of two civilian protesters by Anzac forces in East Timor's Comoro refugee camp on February the 23rd
or
b) The destruction of a New Zealand flag a few weeks later in Wellington.
If you're a leftist who turned up in the comments boxes at indymedia frothing at the mouth over b), but didn't see fit to talk about a), then you probably need to reexamine your political priorities.
(Scott)
Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timo
you had better check your knoledge political spectrum mate, i would be center right not left
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
I agree with all the stuff said about ANZAC day being nationalistic and jingoistic but what was the point of protesting the dawn service, I thought the idea was to make libertarian and socialist ideas as mainstream and popular as possible and this is clearly not the way to go about it. Why couldnt you have just had a vigil to the CO's or victims of New Zealand war crimes, how was burning the flag at the dawn service anything but unproductive, but I guess if your more concerned with a self-righteous ideological purity rather than actually making socialist ideas popular then it was the perfect thing to do. Conratulations you made a bunch of potential sympathisers hate our ideas.
Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timo
We're not socialists! And who says you need a mass movement to get a revolution?
The idea was to spark some discussion that normally is never given time. Judging from the comments I'm reading, I think the protests achieved a lot.
Re: Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and
all your protest achived was to make people who would normally sympathise with you, (such as myself) angry, pissing off the whole country doesnt achve anything but the opposite of what you want.
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
I layed a wreath in commemoration of the many tuuhoe killed in 1868 by british imperialists capitalist expansionist forces while being forced to defend their people and land against the crowns scorched earth policy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorched_earth#19th_Century
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
if a) had anything to do with anzac day then I would maake a comment on it. dont try and change the fact that what you did at the dawn services was totally wrong and is, in my view, an act of treason to this country.
I am not pro war but the people died for your right to protest, you have insulted their memory!
Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timo
They didn't die for our right to protest, they died invading Turkey as part of a senseless squabble between the various ruling class factions in Europe.
Re: Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and
possibly, but what about the subsequent wars, japan would have taken over us with little difficulty had the allies, including us, not stopped them in the pacific. do not try and tell me that it would have been any different had we not invaded turkey.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands
No, Turkey would not have invaded us if we hadn't taken part in the pointless WWI bloodfest.
WWII is perhaps a different matter, but it's the only one of the subsequent wars with any claim to legitimacy. Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq had nothing to do with defending our freedom.
Re: Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and
Please look up "Armenian Genocide" and "Assyrian Genocide".
Re: Re: Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands
Please read the history of Tasmania, the Belgian Congo, Tsarist Russia, Algeria and everywhere else our WWi allies colonised.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Isla
Please look up "straw man argument".
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
how? by using that right and protesting..?
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
This has caused some ranting and raving in the pop media. Check out http://www.stuff.co.nz/thepress/4038278a10.html to see some of it.
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
I am against war but I respect warriors. Whether they were misguided or not, the servicemen at the parade were fighting for what they believed to be right. One of my friends was an ex airman in the Japanese airforce, chosen to go on a kamikaze mission (the war ended just before he was scheduled to go up). History has shown he was on the "wrong" side, but he was still a patriot, willing to give his life for what he believed in. I agree with previous posters that there is a time and place - and method - for anti-war protests, but a time when we are remembering the war dead is not one of them.
Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timo
The world would be much better off with a few less patriots. That your friend's side was wrong has nothing to do with history; invading other countries is simply evil, and patriotism is used to blind people to that. There's no difference between your friend, the kiwis who fought at Gallipoli, and the US troops who invaded Iraq; all were duped in to committing terrible acts in the names of their countries.
Giving your life for what you believe in is all very noble, but taking other people's lives for what you believe in, not so much.
Re: Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and
so we were supposed to not be 'evil' and not invade other countries so we end up be invaded our selve. that makes a shit load of sence doesnt it
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
AEQUITAS, the latin meaning for justice, justice is what i plan to fight for when i join the forces, justice (among many, many other things) is what the men of 1914-1918 -and again in 1939-1945- fought for, from all over the commonwealth and further, for people they would never know, for parts of the world they would never visit.
They fought and died for my country, for your country, for every country that believed in the freedom of people and their beliefs all over the world.
and this is how you honour them?! with banners desecrating what they did for YOU and burning your national flag!!
Those who fought and survived deserve the utmost respect (as do those who did not return) for the sacrifice they made, not to be told what they did and what those men and women did following their example was a waste of time and unapreciated.
92 years ago i would have been landing in Anzac cove along with my friends, 1 in 5 of which would be killed within minutes, that thought, most of all is the most humbling and fills me with respect for the bravery of those men, no boys!
your actions at the cenitaph yesterday morning filled me with hatred toward your insensitivity to the events that have taken place in the past, where boys and men and women for that matter, fought, survived and died believing that they made a difference. they did make a difference. that difference deserves to be remembered, not scorned!
nztroopsoutnow.org; you are a disgrace!
Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timo
good on you mate, i would have bee right there with you
Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timo
Yes these protesting piigs need to be thrown in jail.
i am going to join the forces not because i want to kill...which many of u pigs reckon...But because of my family tradition. im maori and would die for my whanau and my country. not like you cowards who hide behind signs smoking dak.
What does protesting prove? nothing.
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
' We're not socialists! And who says you need a mass movement to get a revolution?
The idea was to spark some discussion that normally is never given time. Judging from the comments I'm reading, I think the protests achieved a lot.'
what did they achieve, thousands of people will now never give socialist or anarchist ideas any time at all. This was the most pointless protest in recent memory, and theres been a lot of pointless protests.
'And who says you need a mass movement to get a revolution' that sounds kind of vnguardist and elitist to me. and your never going to get a mass movement to accomplish real change in this country with pointless stunts like that.
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
How many wellington anarchists does it take to put in a light bulb? Answer:4
One to put in the bulb, one to collect the weekly dole money,the third to roll the joint and the fourth to plan a pointless protest that only their scenester friends will show up to while alienating thousands of people.
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
we were bound by our own free will to defend brittain and go to war for her. yes ww1 was pointless and many lives were lost that should not have been. but the fact is it happened and our soldiers belived that they were doing the right thing by going to fight for king and country. the protesters are entitled to there opinion and could have chosen any other day to vioce it to any other authority and they would have been appluaded by many including myself. now i am nothing but angry with them and i feel they have insulted me, my ancestors an all that fought in, died in and returned from the wars and conflicts that this country has served in. theses people are not murderers, they are heroes. i do not mean to glorify war in any way, it is horrible but these people fought for us and i have the utmost respect for them as a result
james
Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timo
Applauded by many? No, they would have been utterly ignored and virtually nobody would even know it had happened. At least this protest was noticed.
Re: Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and
you have made far mor enemies by making this protest than you have sypathisers, i think you have pushed the progress of your movement back several years. are the government going to listen toyou after what you have done? I think not.
james
Re: Re: Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands
They weren't listening before either, so no loss there.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Isla
yes there was a loss, theyve gone from at least recognising your existence to comlpete hatred of you. if you go to them now they wont do a thing to help you. you have pissed off an entire country
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
Has anybody here who has cited the defense of freedom for the pointless loss of life reflected on what the word freedom meant for NZ's involvement in the early wars?
From what I can ascertain it meant providing support to the empire in return for future protection.
On an offside note, it is amazing how Anzac day has gained a momentum to become a centerpiece calender day for national identity?
Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timo
because it was the event that gave us our national identity you idiot. if we had not gone to war we would probly not be any where near as respected as we are today.
james
Reply to James
James (assuming you're also the one posting all the messages about the Maori Battallion, etc):
you need to question a few of those assumptions.
Being Maori doesn't mean having to take part in the wars of the British and American Empires. Did you know that the very first Anzacs fought not at Gallipoli but in the Waikato War of 1863-64, when land-hungry Europeans attacked the independent Waikato Kingdom? They're buried in the yard outside St John's Church in Drury, where I grew up.
When the first World War broke out, Tainui and several other iwi refused to take part. 'Why should we fight for an Empire that stole our land and resources?' they asked.
Princess Te Puea, the great leader of the Tainui people, made an alliance with Pakeha trade unionists and socialists and led a campaign of resistance when attempts were made to conscript young Maori men. In his biogrphy of Te Puea, Michael King describes how thousands of men who refused to serve gathered at Mangatawhiri Marae near Mercer, where they were arrested. They were imprisoned in places like Mt Eden Prison and Narrowneck Naval Base; dozens were killed by the inhumane conditions there.
The year after the bungled invasion of Turkey that you want to celebrate, armed Pakeha cops attacked the town that Tuhoe had established underneath their sacred mountain Maungapohatu in the Urewera Ranges. Because the leader of the Tuhoe, the prophet Rua Kenana, had advised Maori to refuse to fight in the war, the town at Maungapohatu was destroyed and two of its inhabitants were shot dead.
It's true that some Maori took part in the First World War and more took part in the Second. The Maori Battalion was set up by leaders like Apirana Ngata, who believed that Maori should turn their back on their history of resistance to colonialism, and instead try to win the 'respect' of the Pakeha establishment by fighting in wars on the other side of the world.
There's no doubt that Maori did fight and die with courage in both World Wars. They died in such great numbers that many whanau and hapu were deprived of a generation of males. But was the sacrifice worth it? Ngata’s hopes that the blood Maori spilt on the mud of the western front and the deserts of North Africa would persuade Pakeha governments to honour the Treaty of Waitangi and reverse the land and resource theft begun in the nineteenth century were disappointed. After the war, Maori remained second-class citizens in their own country. The path of compromise with the government in Wellington and its imperialist allies did not bring justice.
It was only in the 1970s, when a generation of Maori radicals rejected Ngata's moderation and launched land occupations and other protests, that progress began to come. By taking direct action, and forging alliances with trade unions and left-wing groups, Maori have won back some stolen land at places like Raglan and Bastion Point, as well as state recognition of and funding for their language and other parts of their culture.
At every step of the way, though, the state forces which you want to celebrate have been used against Maori trying to reclaim what is rightfully theirs. There’s a movie from 1980 called 'Bastion Point: Day 507' which you should watch. It documents the day in 1978 when a convoy of massive New Zealand army trucks rolled through Auckland to Bastion Point, where Ngati Whatua and their supporters had been occupying land stolen from the tribe. Soldiers from the army you want to celebrate were used to demolish the village Ngati Whatua had built at Bastion Point, as hundreds of Maori and their supporters were arrested (Ngati Whatua would eventually win their land back a decade later).
The events of that day in 1978 show that the army is a tool of the New Zealand state, a state that was founded on the dispossession of Maori. And the army acts in the same way abroad as it does at home. In Korea, Malaya, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and now East Timor Maori soldiers have acted as foot soldiers for the same sort of aggressive imperialism that stole their own land and resources in the nineteenth century. Half of the Kiwi troops who fought in America’s war on Vietnam were Maori; many of them have never recovered from the experience.
Last February, Anzac troops launched an attack on a refugee camp near the East Timorese capital Dili which had many parallels to the attack on Bastion Point. Supported by two tanks, the Anzacs smashed their way through barricades into the camp, whose homeless residents had been refusing government demands that they move away. Three Timorese of the same age as you were shot in cold blood by these heroic Anzacs; two of them died of their wounds.
If you become an Anzac, you’ll end up on missions like the one to Comoro refugee camp, doing the dirty work for American and Australian imperialism. With US imperialism in crisis and lashing out desperately around the world, there will be no shortage of new wars and colonial occupations for you to take part in. You might find yourself on the streets of Kabul, or in the mountains of Iran, or in the jungles of South America. You might even find yourself aiming a gun at protesters in Aotearoa. Wherever you go, though, you’ll be despised, as a hired thug for imperialism. Go and talk to one of the soldiers who fought against the tangata whenua of Vietnam, and are still filled with self-hatred.
There are easier things to do with your life, comrade.
(Scott)
Re: Reply to James
no im not the one writing about the maori battalion but i do agree with what he says. do not call me comrade you evidently do not no what comraderie means
james
assumptions
Oh the irony.
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
Well, maybe the Govt wasn't listening to PAW before, but I was. Not anymore tho. This is the dumbest thing you've ever done.
Maybe I should protest at the next 'reclaim the night march' to draw attention to the men in jail over false rape claims, and the children and men killed by women. But, no, I wouldn't do that, because even tho those issues are serious and deserve debate, I've got respect- and brains. The Wellington action was rude and counterproductive.
Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timo
The Reclaim the Night protests aren't addressed by rapitst speakers, don't involve processions of rapists where others clap them on, and don't function in anyway that legitimises or glorify rapists... so what is there to protest?
On the other hand, ANZAC day is addressed by leaders of the military, guns are fired, the soldiers are clapped as the parade around, airforce jets fly overhead, and the whole day functions as a justification and glorification of the military, while simultaneously engaging in gross revisionism of the causes of war.
Re: Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and
You morons don't seem to realise that when NZ is involved first hand in a war, on its own soil, which one day it will be as it already has been in the NZ Wars of the 1800's, the military is going to be the organisation that saves your scrawny necks! Anzac day isnt about gloryfying the military or war at all, its about honouring the fallen and the survivors that fought in wars. I cannot believe that there are people in the wordl who cannot see this and deem it acceptable to dishonour them on their day! we dedicate one day a year to honour those servicepeople, there is a town in France, that every evening the last post is played under the towns war memorial arch, to honour the Anzac and other allied soldiers who died defending their village against the Axis forces, protecting women, children, old and people like you, regardless. again i say your a disgrace!
Aequitas.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands
Why should people who fought in wars automatically be honoured? Should we honour the nazis who fought proudly and bravely for their country, or condemn them for participating in an unjustifiable war of aggression? The prevailing attitude that military service is apolitically heroic is nonsense.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Isla
for fucks sake. germany honours her troops, we honnour ours. the germans defended their country just as we would have in the same situation. If you went to war and died would you want to be forgotten forever? why cant we just have one day where we remember them without you bastards comming and ruining it.
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
Well, maybe the Govt wasn't listening to PAW before, but I was. Not anymore tho. This is the dumbest thing you've ever done.
Maybe I should protest at the next 'reclaim the night march' to draw attention to the men in jail over false rape claims, and the children and men killed by women. But, no, I wouldn't do that, because even tho those issues are serious and deserve debate, I've got respect- and brains. The Wellington action was rude and counterproductive.
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
Great comment Scott. Some very good points, to do with the history of NZ that gets glossed over, especially on days like ANZAC Day.
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
"All little soldier boys deserve to die." - The Sicfux
Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timo
fuck you!!you redneck ,brainwashed fuckwits!!fuck society and all your pathetic celebrations ,memorials etc go follow in line ,like all the rest
anarchist in AUS
Re: Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and
If you have a problem with society go crawl into a corner and die. it will make the world a far better place. i choose to attend these mermorials because although i despise war, I belive what the men and women were doing the right thing. that is my view and mine alone, no one brainwashed that into me.
james
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
Labor pricks lay out their agenda for the pacific its the same neo-coloinal take as that prick howard, so when they move the troops
out of Iraq & Afganistan they wil be using them against our brothers & sisters in Te Moana Nui a Kiwa.
By Robert McClelland, Shadow Minister for Defence
(Slave labor party Australia)
Recent disturbances in the Pacific region serve to emphasise the
benefits of pursuing long term stabilisation through institutional reform.
Date: 28 November 2006
EVENTS in Tonga, following on from unrest in East Timor, show
Australia has particular risks and responsibilities in the Asia
Pacific region and we need to re-balance our national security
priorities to take account of that reality. At the end of the day, it
is within our own region where we can maximise the effectiveness of
our contribution to the global fight against terrorism.
Reconstruction expert James Quinlivan’s thesis argues that for a
stabilisation force to be effective â€" “to create an environment
orderly enough that most routine civil functions could be carried outâ€
â€" it is necessary to make a calculation whereby “the number of troops
required is determined by size of populationâ€.
The model that Quinlivan put forward for an effective ratio was 20
stabilisation personnel per 1000 population. This has rung true for
operations as diverse as the Malayan Emergency and, from 1995-2000,
the Balkan crises.
While Labor has consistently opposed the invasion of Iraq, the basic
truth is that if those who planned the invasion had intended to pursue
regime change, they should have been aware of that research and
experience. There has never been a stabilisation force ratio of 20 to
1000 of population in Iraq. As a result of this inadequate planning,
the seeds of failure were effectively sown at the point of invasion.
Domino effect
I recently embarked on a detailed critique of the stabilisation
process in Iraq in a speech to the Australian Strategic Policy
Institute. However, the events of past weeks have reinforced the even
more critical lesson that we must draw from Iraq’s failures in regards
to our own region.
Labor’s Iraq policy has been accused of setting a moral precedent for
withdrawal of US and UK forces. However, the US and UK are not
confronted by an arc-of instability on their doorstep. We should not
forget that Australia was forced to re-deploy hundreds of troops to
East Timor and the Solomon Islands earlier this year.
Unless we get our act in order in our region, we will inevitably be
looking at a revolving door of deployments in these and other regional
states under pressure.
Refusing to confront the issue of failing nation states in our region
could have a domino effect. A report by the Australian Strategic
Policy Institute notes that the violence in the Solomon Islands was
nurtured in part by the example of disturbances elsewhere in the South
Pacific including Bougainville, PNG and the coups in Fiji.
Moreover, the international community expects us to discharge our
responsibilities in our region. Indeed, as the Government’s 2000
Defence White Paper noted, the development of political vacuums
created by failed states can make those states vulnerable to the
positioning of foreign assets and possible foreign forces in close
proximity to Australia
Better planning
If we recall Quinlivan’s research regarding the number of troops to
population ratio required in order to restore stability in a failed
state, there are potentially ominous clouds on Australia’s national
security horizon. This is made clear by noting current populations.
The population of East Timor is estimated to be roughly 1,000,000, PNG
is 5,670,000, Fiji is 905,000, and the Solomon Islands is 550,000.
If our military is required to undertake stabilisation operations in
one of the larger countries in our region, it would be an enormous
task. Australia therefore needs to create and fabricate long term
policy which will minimise the prospect of having to make such a
military commitment in the future.
Research shows that without long term stabilisation through
institutional reform, 39% of countries revert to lawlessness within
five years of a force’s withdrawal and a further 32% within ten years.
East Timor and the Solomon Islands are dramatic examples of that
occurring.
There is a need for both military and policing operations to be
supported and supplemented by other government and non-government
agencies. The development of a whole of Government approach to prevent
and if necessary assist failing states is essential.
We must be creative in forging better mechanisms to ensure that our
planning for complex operations is capable of focusing the efforts of
all the agencies to achieve the complete result that we are looking for.
Get creative
The military needs to better understand the broader picture, the aid
and development players need to have better planning discipline.
Fundamentally both sectors need to work in unison.
This realisation has already been acted upon by counties like the US
and UK, as well as multilateral organisations such as the EU and UN
through the creation of consolidated reconstruction and stabilization
bodies.
The US Department of Defence issued a 2005 directive describing
stability operations as ‘a core US military mission… [to be] given
priority comparable to combat operations and… explicitly addressed and
integrated across all DoD activities’.
The US has recognised stabilisation as critical to its national
interests, and it is time that Australia did the same.
Tonga’s recent crisis is illustrative of the need to develop a more
broad-based nation-building capability. Sending in a military and
police force will no doubt quell the unrest in the short term. But
unless Tonga’s democratic institutions are strengthened and the
genuine aspirations of the Tongan democracy movement are dealt with,
this may be the first of many expeditions required of Australian
personnel in what is fast becoming a revolving door of Pacific
deployments.
Regional stability operations are the most productive and value-adding
way for Australia to contribute to regional security, the
international fight against terrorism and our alliance with the United
States.
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
monday 26 June 2006
Philip Cunliffe
Aussie rules in the Pacific
Why Australian prime minister John Howard is slated for supporting the war in Iraq but cheered for reconquering the Solomon Islands and East Timor.
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The government of Australian prime minister John Howard was widely criticised for its loyal support of the American ‘war on terror’, including its despatch of troops to bolster Coalition forces in Iraq. But Australia’s recent burst of militarism in the Pacific is rarely challenged; in fact, it is often celebrated. Why is this?
Howard’s government was bitterly criticized by anti-war activists and commentators for supporting the US-led invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. Yet Australia already has more troops in East Timor than it has in either of those countries, as well as a further 400 troops in the Solomon Islands. Unlike Iraq, these military operations have been almost universally welcomed, both in Australia and the wider world. Following the despatch of troops in May to East Timor, Australia’s Daily Telegraph argued that ‘Australia has a continuing responsibility – having acted as “midwife” when East Timor was issued into independence – to supervise her transition from wobbly infancy’. The Sydney Morning Herald claimed that, ‘As a good international citizen and regional power Australia has a moral obligation to support East Timor.’ (1)
These sentiments were echoed in a leader in The Economist, which lauded Australia’s ‘policing’ of the Pacific, but wanted such policing to be pushed further: ‘Asia needs a posse, not just a lonely sheriff’, it argued (2).
Australia’s ‘policing’ activities are not limited to military expeditions. Its bureaucrats run the finance ministry, central bank and police force in the Solomon Islands, as well as overseeing the finances of Nauru. As part of the ‘enhanced co-operation programme’ with its former colony of Papua New Guinea, Australian police officers and civil servants oversee that state’s policing, border controls, justice system and economy (3).
The origins of Australia’s new sphere of influence in the Pacific can be traced back to its military intervention in East Timor in 1999, when the United Nations authorised an Australian-led force to quell the violence that followed the international community’s coercion of Indonesia into holding a referendum on the Timorese independence. This intervention was followed in July 2003 (after the invasion of Iraq) by the despatch of another Australian-led force, this time to the Solomon Islands.
Australia offers two basic justifications for this new interventionism. The first is human rights. So officials claimed they were sending troops to East Timor to protect the Timorese from retreating pro-Indonesian forces. But the extent of this humanitarian compassion has proved remarkably limited on other occasions. Howard’s government is well known for mistreating asylum seekers, even sending naval special forces in August 2001 to round up 400 Afghan asylum-seekers adrift in international waters, before dumping them for ‘processing’ in Nauru, at a safe distance from Australia’s shores. In November 2003, a boat containing 14 Kurdish asylum seekers was towed back into international waters and re-routed to Indonesia.
In 2001, Australian minister for immigration Phillip Ruddock defended this policy on the grounds of protecting Australia’s sovereignty, ‘including Australia’s sovereign right to determine who shall enter Australia’ (4). But this concern for the rights of sovereign states does not extend to those of Indonesia, or of those Pacific Island states where Australia has despatched its soldiers and bureaucrats. Evidently, some sovereigns are more equal than others. Humanitarian compassion recognises some borders (namely, Australia’s), but not others (such as Indonesia’s). When refugees try to cast off their status as telegenic human rights victims, to seek out a better life in rich countries, they are quickly relabelled as ‘threats’ to the stability of our societies.
The second justification for Australia’s new sphere of influence is a bizarrely paranoiac notion of pre-emptive defence. The argument is made that Australian power is necessary to prevent ‘failing states’ in the Pacific from becoming part of an ‘arc of instability’ (5), which would offer havens for terror and organised crime to take root.
But the idea of the Taliban using the Solomon Islands as a launch pad for the invasion of Australia is even more absurd than the notion that Saddam Hussein’s elusive WMD posed a threat to civilisation. At the time of the 2003 Solomon Islands intervention, the Prime Minister of PNG, Sir Michael Somare, argued that: ‘In Papua New Guinea we are concerned about the way foreign academics, journalists and governments try to determine the fate of small developing countries. Our performance is being judged by past records. Yet no one wants to acknowledge the positive steps that we are taking…. The designation of the term “weak” or “failed” to a developing nation seems…to be rather arbitrary.’ (6)
The fact that such thin justifications and paranoid geopolitics can become the basis for foreign policy indicates the extent to which Western military intervention in the developing world goes unquestioned. The West’s moral authority to govern the affairs of poor countries is taken for granted. The only debate is on the technicalities – which country to intervene in; how to secure the patina of multilateral legitimacy; how to spread the burden of troop deployments and logistics, and so on. The Solomon Islands only achieved independence in 1978. Yet since 2003, they have been restored to foreign rule on the grounds of preventing terrorism and organised crime.
East Timor’s period of independence has proved even more shortlived. Having been granted independence from the UN only in 2002, the former Timorese resistance leader Xanana Gusmão recently pleaded for the international community to re-occupy the country (7).
Australia’s new interventionism has provided a platform for Howard to pontificate about how Australia’s neighbours should run their affairs. ‘I have a right as prime minister of Australia’, he proclaimed earlier this year, ‘to say to the political leadership [of East Timor] it carries a very heavy responsibility.’ (8)
Whatever moral authority nation-building in the Pacific has given Howard, the legacy it has bestowed on the peoples of the Pacific is another matter. The ‘arc of instability’ used to justify Australia’s interventionism has now become a self-fulfilling prophecy, with the failure of nation-building projects in East Timor and the Solomon Islands used as justification for another round of intensified nation-building. Whatever hopes were raised by ideas of pre-emptive intervention, nation-building and human-rights intervention as a solution to the problems of Pacific states in the late 1990s, they have clearly been confounded. The results are in, and they are disastrous. It is high time we challenged the nation-building experiment.
Philip Cunliffe is co-convenor of the Sovereignty and Its Discontents working group. Email him at philip.cunliffe@kcl.ac.uk.
(1) BBC Monitoring, ‘No quick fix for Timor, says Australia press’, 26 May 2006
(2) The Economist, ‘Policing the Pacific’, 3 June 2006
(3) The Economist, ‘Policing the Pacific’, 3 June 2006
(4) Phillip Ruddock, cited in Katharine Gelber and Matt McDonald ‘Ethics and exclusion: representations of sovereignty in Australia’s approach to asylum seekers’ Review of International Studies, April 2006, 32:2, p.269
(5) Guardian News blog, ‘Australia’s “arc of instability”’, 26 May 2006
(6) Sir Michael Somare, ‘The new face of the Pacific: continuity and change’, Address to the Pacific Cooperation Foundation and New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, 12 August 2003
(7) See East Timor: when nation-building destroys, by Philip Cunliffe
(8) John Aglionby, ‘Back to square one’, Guardian, 6 June 2006
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
Why can't we have our own day to celebrate those who refused to go to war?
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
The day I would really like to see over-run by protest is V-J day or Victory over Japan day.
It is obscene to see people parade up the main street to celebrate dropping nuclear bombs on civillians.
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
In the media there have been a lot of people slamming the protest at the a.n.z.a.c dawn ceramony. I was one of the protesters and i have no shame about what i did and here is why.
Both my grandfathers were soldiers. One fought in both world wars.
I love them still, however i will not honour them as a war heroes.
Yes we should mourn those who died, we should admire their fighting spirit
and never forget who killed them; corrupt governments.
We are being lied to when we are told that NZ troops are peace keepers. NZ
troops are attached to Australian, American and British forces which engage
in combat. Some NZ soldiers recently deployed overseas have killed and been
killed. The NZ army is engaged in war not peace. Why can't we call a horse a
horse. War is not peace, democracy is not imposing a global hegemony.
NZ, in alliance with America, Australia and Britain, is part of a dominant
culture of war. We are the oppressors.
If you doubt what i say simply check out the aforementioned countries'
foreign policies and defence policies. They are policies which mean we can
feed off the suffering of people in poor countries.
People are disgusted by others protesting at the dawn ceremony. Well the
protesters are disgusted by these ceremonies being conducted by warmongers
who would gladly send more people to die in order to make them richer.
I was made sick at the dawn ceremony when i heard that we should be proud
that we are a peaceful country so i blew trumpet in protest against being
lied to, in protest at the dishonour this does to all those who died for
similar lies. My right to protest was taken away from me, i was
immediately physically assaulted and dragged away. So to all those who say
we should be thankful for those who fought for our right to protest, i say
what right? It doesn't exist unless our protest is confined to times and
places were we are not seen or heard.
Here's a simple test: Which upsets you more?
a) The fatal shooting of two civilian protesters by ANZAC forces in East
Timor's Comoro refugee camp on February the 23rd 2007, or
b) The blowing of a trumpet during a speech a few weeks later in Wellington.
(In February, ANZAC troops launched an attack on a refugee camp near the
East Timorese capital Dili. Supported by two tanks, the Anzacs smashed their
way through barricades into the camp, whose homeless residents had been
refusing government demands that they move away. Three Timorese were shot
in cold blood by these "heroic" Anzacs; two of them died of their wounds.)
NZ governors and governments have been in the business (which is big
dollars) of war since the land wars when the tangata te whenua of aotearoa
were beaten, raped, tortured, murdered, dispossessed and and denied a right
to protest. The NZ government continues this business today in the
middle east and the pacific. It makes me sick to see warmongers leading a
dawn ceremony where patriotism means allegiance to a government engaged in
warfare and is more the theme than “never again”.
To the people who were there for peace and not jingoism; I am sorry if i
offended you, please read the simple test. And why do you not protest the
blatant jingoism which is disrespecting the dead you whent to mourn?
Down with all corrupt governments and other warmongers.
Peace. Mark Rawnsley.
Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timo
your right to protest was not taken away. you went beyond your rights by blowing that horn. you broke the law and that is why you were arrested. as for the assault you claim to have been treated to, i hope it hurt!
james
Re: Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and
James under which law is blowing a trumpet illegal?
Why don't you come to the court case and find out what really happened and who was abusing the law?
Besides the law is there to serve and protect the rich and powerful and needs to be broken to end oppression.
What i did was lawful and doesn't change shit. However i have the decency to speak out against hypocrisy.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands
its obstruction, wich is agaist the law
james
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
Bro & Sis just did a "Tama Iti" on the Flag wipe kia kaha to them, Militarism, Imperialism, Colonialism, capitalism same old same old bullshit
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
You blew a trumpet? Great way to end imperialism. Do you feel stupid now?
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
from anarchafairys blog
'demographics of those present at anzac parade .....clean, white and middle class'
Sounds exactly like the wellington anarchist seen except for the clean part. zing.
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
Hindsight of course is always 20/20. But how many of us have the insight to actually go against societal norms especially in such a Confucian and heirarchical society as 1940s Japan. Unless you were actually in Japan in the 1940s and experienced first hand the Emperor worship and jingoism then it is not your place to judge. In any event the Kamikaze squads were formed towards the end of the war, not to invade, but to defend Japan from the Americans invading them. And unlike us they had no internet, no Indymedia and no mass communications to help them decide what was right or wrong. All they saw was an invader threatening to take over all they held dear. The kamikaze would not have known they were on the wrong side until they understood the whole war and its historical context. It is to my friend's credit that instead fo committing suicide afterwards at the Emperor's betrayal, as did many of his colleagues, he instead chose to come to terms with his mistake and help build up Japan in peacetime.
There may be slightly more blame attached to those who went off to Gallipoli to be slaughtered, they at least knew they were invading a foreign country, not defending their own. But even there, the propaganda machine was far too strong for most of them, again in an age largely before telecommunications.
Surely the reason to protest against wars is to prevent others from being duped in the future. It makes no sense at all to sneer at those who were taken in. It shows disrespect to the victims of the wars you are supposedly protesting against.
Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timo
Yes, preventing others from being duped in the future is what matters. The problem is that the mainstream ANZAC ceremonies don't acknowledge this; it's all about respecting their brave sacrifice. There's lip service about the horrors of war, but no hint of a suggestion that they should have refused to make that sacrifice, even qualified with "if only they'd known".
Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timo
the yanks only went to invade the japs, because the japs attacked them first you dumbass. Pearl Harbour!! thats what brought the yanks into the war, if pearl harbour hadnt been attacked, chances were the yanks wuda stayed nuetral!
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
'if pearl harbour hadnt been attacked, chances were the yanks wuda stayed nuetral!'
Japan's ruling class really had no choice but to go to war against the US because that country was trying to strangle the Japanese economy by restricting its access to oil. Japan decided that the first blow might as well be a big one, so they struck at Pearl Harbour. The US and Japan were two imperialist powers locked in an insoluble conflict over resources in the Asia-Pacific region.
US troops only arrived in NZ after the Battle of Midway had stopped the Japanese advance through the Pacific, so the legend that the Yanks 'saved' us is a bit inaccurate. We only needed the Yanks in the first place because most of this country's young men were running around under British command as part of the New Zealand Expeditionary Force in the Mediterranean. The Fraser government meekly asked the Brits for the NZEF back but Churchill, who had us by the balls because of a huge British loan that bailed out the Labour government in 1938, refused, and suggested the Americans should come instead. Looking back at the period, I have a lot of admiration for the stance of rebel Labour MP John A Lee, who demanded the return of the NZEF and also called for the Fraser government to renege on its loan obligations to British imperialism.
(Scott)
Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timo
my great-grandfather was a medic on the beaches of gallipoli. i have been to gallipoli to honour his memory. and i find it disgusting that his horror is being used to build a sense of national identity for new zealand. come on, surely there are better things to celebrate about new zealand than the fact that we were used as cannon fodder for the british. why should the horrors of gallipoli and other wars be used to justify our continuing abuse of human rights in other countries, now? to build support for nationalistic militarism? we have been scrabbling for a sense of identity and picked up on anzac day. good on the flag burners for challenging the nationalistic military rhetoric fired at us every anzac day. and shame on the state for, once again, taking our right to free speech.
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
One reason for the recent Anzac Day hype and spending millions on pseudo-sacred monuments - Helen Clark isn't into rugby, but cultivating dead soldiers rather than brain-dead sportspeople is good PR.
Re: Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timo
I have not insulted anyone on my postings, why do you want to make disparaging comments about me? Since you don't know me, why do your think you are so qualified to make judgements about my intelligence, which is actually far above average? If you read my post more carefully, you will see that I am not suggesting the US was not justified in invading Japan, I am saying that to the average Japanese airman, without the benefits of your hindsight, fed with all the propaganda of the period, this is the way it would have seemed.
I am keeping an open mind as to whether the attack on Pearl Harbour was justified or not, and whether the Americans were really the victims they make themselves out to be. One interpretation I have heard is that the Americans provoked the Japanese into attacking because they wanted to attack Japan but needed an excuse. Rather like the imaginary weapons of mass destruction were an excuse to invade Iraq.
BTW I agree that VJ day should be banned. That may be a more appropriate day for massive protests.
Re: Lest we forget Afghanistan, the Solomon Islands and Timor Le
Someone should tell Helen Clark that dead soldiers don't vote.