Will Amalgamation Strengthen the Uniting Unions?

I really cant beleive this bullshit. More power to the middle class union workers is all this is about. Time to start a new union for low income that doesnt allow u middle class arse holes in.

Another sell out.

Power to the members not the union and dont tell me they are the same thing because they are not. What members run what unions?

NONE

Time to get back to the days when unions were by and for their members.

I believe the poster two post above was speaking about the people working for those unions, not the workers that a supposed to be working for

"um, i think you'll find that Unite! represents mainly minimum wage employees like those found in the fast food industry, and other minimum wage jobs. NDU covers a range of workers, not just 'middle class' workers, and the Service and Food Workers Union speaks for itself really."

Perhaps you should read a bit more before u write. The person under you was quite correct. Unionism in this country is run and controled by the middle class. If u dont understand I suggest you do some reading.

As I said. Time for change. Large unions only help the middle class control more workers. Unite was started as a union for benificarys a few years back and then Matt McCarten got hold of it and sold it off to the highest bider. Yes I know he didnt sell it but in terms of unionism he did.

As I suggested it is time for the low income to take control back and start something that stays in our own hands. We dont need no smart arse middle class organisers thanks. We can organise ourselves.

There was talk of starting a beneficary union before Unite came along so I guess it is time to go back to those thoughts and see if others are interested.

"DONT TALK ON BEHALF OF BENEFICARYS, WE CAN TALK ON OUR OWN BEHALF THANKS"

actually i'm a beneficiary myself.

and my own experiences with unite when i was working were by and large quite good.

my own reading is quite informed, thanks.

but i agree with you in regards to the importance of creating a more egalitarian, collectivist system. i absolutely agree that unions need to be run by its members.

And "I suggest" you look in to some of the achievements that unions like unite! have made. i know my own employment was made much easier with support from unite!

as far as the middle class arseholes thing, go fuck yourself, you hypocrite, i've been earning much less than the 'average wage' for the last 12 years, worked a lot more shitty jobs than you probably have, while trying to find time to produce my own music/art, if you can tell me that you've experienced bad working conditions, fine, but the fact of the matter is that if it wasn't for unions the minimum wage would still be below $12 an hour.

the funny thing is, you sound like you're trying to talk on behalf of the 'workers', who would probably tell you to fuck off if you spoke to them like that.

and sorry to tell you this, but you're coming across as just as 'middle class'. challenging my own reading for example. like you're so much more informed than i am. thats middle class.

Just as an aside to this debate, not all of the middle class organisers working for these three unions are necessarily supporting the amalgamation.

Some think that it will solidify certain management styles - i.e. "one big union" from above, rather than from below.

Unfortunately waving your arms about about things not being democratic does not a democratic union make.

Workers aren't simply being held back from exploding by reformist unions. And even though we don't like top down unions, we have to accept that they do achieve some things and that workers will support top down unions because of that. Understanding this doesn't mean that we think its a good idea or agree with this method, but it means we are being realistic about where things are at which also means we can better think about how to move away from there.

No one is going to care about democracy within their union if their union largely means nothing to them or if they see it as a service. That means that for a rank and file network to be meaningful or even have a chance of being successful, grassroots methods of organising actually have to work and acheive something. That means people need to put time and effort into making it happen.

As for Unite doing amazing things, I'm sick of people saying that. For all SFWU's problems, they have been winning bigger pay rises than Unite in some of their low paid areas. Don't always beleive the hype. Of course we all should support what all the unions are doing, but why elevate one above another when there isn't really that much difference as far as member participation and control goes.

John.

i didn't say unite did amazing things, i said they've helped me, and other workers.

amazing things would be like completely destroying the industrial complex/corporate ideology. but i totally agree with you, other unions have achieved more than unite. my point was in regard to my own experiences, not other peoples.

and speaking personally from my own, and my fathers involment with the union movement, who gives a fuck about matt mccarten? i've never given a moments thought to him. i'm much more interested in who my local rep is, what conditions employees are subject to, and how to disrupt our corporate oppressors.

the main issue with this discussion seems to be an ideological difference between anarchists and socialists. i say unions do good work, where as someone else thinks they are simply further examples of oppression and middle class dominance.

the sad fact is that we are all middle class in some form or another, whether you wish to concede the fact or not. a bunch of sad bastards, with our own form of rebellion against our parents generation.

my original post was concerned with whether i was going to get a say in this movement towards a larger union.

and i've always considered myself as an anarchist, not a socialist.

don't think that just because you have an ideology of your own that other people are going to buy into it. most, if not all workers don't give a shit about revolution. all they want is a fair wage and time to spend with their family.

but hey, who gives a shit, right?

fuck you.

that's the most important ideological statement anyone could make.

so i'll say it again. fuck you.

thats real empowerment.

fuck you.

'unemployed M.A. student'