Activists Liberate Lambs and Chickens for World Farm Animals Day

Hello lovely indy editors

could you please fix the links so that they include the forward slash.

cheers x

Well done and very wise in hiding the faces! Keep up the great work!

What about the animals displaced and killed to farm the vegetables you eat? Don't you realise that insects are killed during vegetable production?

What about the fact that land used to grow vegetables for human consumption is an animals' habitat? Even if you only eat fruit fallen naturally from a tree you are still in effect starving an insect or bacterium that needs that fruit to survive.

If a guinea worm infested your body would you remove it and kill it? Wouldn't that be killing an animal too?

What about if an animal kills another animal? Do you blame a chimpanzee for eating other animals?

Why do you only care about the cute and cuddly animals and not the insects? Why don't you ever liberate fish farms?

Your philosophy just seems odd to me.

So what's going to happen to these animals now? Are they going to be pets, if so who's going to take care of them especially when they grow to adulthood. They will still have to be fed just the same as if they were still on a farm, environmentally it is a pointless exercise. Their existence on a free range farm with high standards of animal care and a quick slaughter when that time comes is perfectly reasonable and humane. Yes farm animals are food and vegans are dim.

to the person who did the posted the vegans are dim post ,have you ever been to a slaughterhouse? could you kill your own food? to a vegan and true animal lovers this is a life saved
thank you guys ,your a inspiration for us

I like eating the cooked flesh of dead animals. I think animals should continue to be enslaved and oppressed, and we should continue to eat their eggs, drink their milk, use their skin to make clothing, and above all, eat their flesh. Meat is tasty.

Humans are more important than animals, and I very much doubt the people stealing these animals have ever stood on a picket line in their life.

Alastair Reith.

Yes this is an obvious traversty to comment on saving animals and completely ignore the poor McDonalds worker who is struggling daily to do their part to get that fucken poison into the veins and arteries of the working class so as to make sure theyre all nice and fucked up by the ages of 12, and all ready and lined up for the big heart attack at 30, and all for a measely $12 an hour. No youre right, they deserve some comments in the McDonalds workers news item...

Hey Alistair, luckily I'm not a sectarian bastard like you, otherwise I would be tempted to punch you in the head next time I see you on a picket line.
I've stood on many picketlines (and longer than you have I bet), lots of them with workers party members like you. I've also liberated animals from cruelty. I don't expect you to agree with me, but I do expect a bit of respect from a fellow activist. pull your head in.
Anonymouse

Alastair all you to is try to inflate your ego and parade your ignorance. Animal rights activists could be some of the best allies for unionists when it come to fast food giants like mc donalds, they understant the suffering animals and workers go through to produce cheap and nasty food (and wages).

Instead you say you support such industries, but expect the people you degrade and insult to stand beside you on a picket line? You make yourself look stupid and risk angering people to the point where people would feel unable to stand beside you on any strike ot picket line.

Pick up your game

With all due respect (which being a sell out vegan is not much but anyway) I know several animals (cats, dogs and rabbits) who have been uplifted by animal rights activists from peoples backyards because they have been being mistreated and abused and they are not living very happy lives thanks to these activists. Just because it is not reported it does not mean that it does not happen. And to be honest no actual animal rights activist would every ring the SPCA to help with anything because they are one of the biggest killers of companion animals in this country. The same can be said of all animal control and Council animal 'welfare' facilities.

Alastair, you are a real douche-bag! Not only do you grossly stereotype ALA people without thought, but you make a complete dick of yourself everytime you post on this site! You think this is their day job? That maybe these same people involved aren't out on the picket lines or working in their unions as well?

Unpack some of your privilege please, and then get back to us with some worthy analysis. Who gives you the right to place one struggle (related struggles, I might add) over another? If you can't figure out that food consumption and mass production for profit is entrenched within Capitalism, and that certain practices such as the ones described above are part of the class struggle against wider opression, then I would not like to have you as a comrade, Alastair.

Sheesh.

Jared D

"Who gives you the right to place one struggle (related struggles, I might add) over another?"

Are you honestly suggesting that running off with a few poor and oppressed chickens is equally important as the struggle of poor and oppressed HUMANS? Do you honestly believe animals are as important as humans?

I take it the Bushmen shouldn't be hunting animals for food, and neither should Inuit people. Because after all, it's better that humans go hungry than animals die. Espescially cutesy-wutesie animals like lambs. We don't give a shit about liberating fish farms.

"If you can't figure out that food consumption and mass production for profit is entrenched within Capitalism, and that certain practices such as the ones described above are part of the class struggle against wider opression, then I would not like to have you as a comrade, Alastair."

Hmm, so food consumption is a part of capitalism... I see. In socialism/anarchy/whatever, nobody will eat! Down with the consumption of food, real revolutionaries survive through photosynthesis!

I wrote the sixth post down about vegetable farming killing animals etc.

What I disagree with is the philosophy that humans shouldn't eat animals full stop, or to do so is wrong (ie 'there is no ethical meat, fish or eggs), but I definitely support ALA insofar as they are bringing attention to the issue. Their website is very informative and does have some very interesting stuff about fish farming.

However, I also disagree strongly with Alastair Reith's comments. The poorest in our communities are the first to be afflicted by environmental damage and an unbalanced ecosystem (such as clearing forests in the Amazon to farm cattle for McDonald's or overfishing leading to denuded coral reef systems).

Similarly, as Jared D says, companies that support factory farming, such as McDonald's and Tegels, also treat their workers poorly.

If Alastair cares about class struggle, he might need to think more about the ecological consequences of the way we consume and what impact that will have on the poorest people on the planet.

Some of Alistair's post is just totally objectively untrue, such as the assertion that AR activists don't attend workers pickets.

It's blatantly untrue. Some AR activists have
made oustanding contributions along the way to the workers movement and have led hard struggles. And there are other layers which might not prioritise the labour movement but
do stuff like making and bringing cooked food to picket lines which can make a very welcome change from sausages, canned spag, bags of oranges.

Alistair's approach also mirrors the social control aspect of some of the lifestyle anarchists/AR activists in an inverted way. Communists should oppose the kind of workerism which assumes that all workers eat meat and keep tidy haircuts, or that they should do, or that we
should glorify that.

The stuff that Alistair posted should be kept amongst comrades (the ones who feel that way) for laughs and digs. Within the party there will be people who don't appreciate it, especially as we grow and attract people from different walks of life.

Jared Phillips, WP.

I dont think being vegan is a hassle at all ,in fact its quite easy and healthy and non reliant on
your local takeaway or mc shit,by the way its not about one speices being above another ,factory farming and modern farming practices are just plain cruel and unjustifiable and these ppl do not think animals are people otherwise the wouldnt need to liberate them now would they

There is actually plenty of protein in most vegetables, in fact most nutritionists would say if you are getting enough calories you are getting enough protein. And if you really think that your own rather minor inconveniences are worth torturing a chicken over several weeks then I can't argue, but it seems a completely morally bankrupt value system to me.

Michael Morris

sounds to me matey that you were not informed and did not know how to have a varied ,healthy vegan diet ,plenty of protein is obtained from vegetables,nuts,tofu etc vegans run marathons!! and are some of the healthiest peeps

^^^its not moralist shite at all ,what gives you the right to judge these peeps (and others "lifestyle anarchists")like your shit dont stink ,me and my boyfriend are both "working class" and we are vegan as well,you say the working class are in big trouble ,well so are animals ,do you actually work or just criticise and cause division,this post is about compassion ,go ALA

Michael Morrris (aka Phil) writes "The post has an underlying speciesist assumption that one type of exploited beings is of less value than another."

Damn right it does. Does Phil (who at least has the decency to attach his name to his post) honestly believe that we don't, at a basic level, attach more value to humans than other species? If he was faced with a choice between saving a human baby and a rat baby, would he really be wracked with indecision? I doubt it, and if he did, I doubt many people would sympathise if in the end he chose the rat. What if there were two rats? Theoretically, two lives would be more important than one, so in the absence of a qualitative criterion, a quantitative one should mean saving the rats. Would Phil really rescue the rats and return them to their mother while expressing his condolences to the human mother about his inability to save her baby too? I doubt the rats' mother would be faced with the same moral "dilemma".

He continues: "the form of exploition is no different; the animals are indentured workers, also known as slaves". Firstly, there is a huge difference between indentured workers and slaves. Slaves are chattels in perpetuity and often unpaid. Indentured workers (like my children's grandfather) are contracted to a period of indenture, after which they are free. Ask any indentured labourer if s/he would be happy to be a slave and see if you get anyone taking up the opportunity. Likewise, ask any slave if s/he would take indenture as an option and see how many decide they'd happily stay as a slave thanks.

Animals are commodities bought and sold in the market (as are slaves). If the animal was providing an uncompensated surplus value above what it was bought for, the farmer who sold it would have been ripped off big-time, and many times over. That's the difference. The worker can be ripped off many times over because his/her labour does produce an uncompensated surplus and yet the worker is compelled to return to that arrangement indefinitely. None of this makes a decision not to eat meat "wrong" or "invalid". Nor need it be divisive. It just isn't attacking capitalism. But plenty of things we do in our lives don't attack capitalism, and there's nothing wrong with that. We live in a capitalist world and have to function within it even as we oppose it. So when we jump on a bus, if it's run by a private bus company, we're not opposing capitalism by taking public transport either. That's just how it is. We may want our decisions to be a statement of our rejection of capitalism, but not all of them are.

Even if I accepted the notion that it is "speciesist", and therefore wrong, to state that there is a difference between the farming of animals and the employment of wage labour for profit (which I emphatically do not) it still wouldn't alter the fact that capitalism would still continue unchanged as a system of production if we all became vegans and eliminated all use of animal products. All that would change would be our consumption habits. It is be no different from claiming that capitalism would be threatened if people stop buying jeans and all started wearing track pants instead. Capitalism is a system of production (for profit). If organic food can be produced by capitalism (which it can) a change in diet from animal to plant protein would simply shift capitalist production from animal to plant protein. Nothing else would change. I repeat, while inhumane treatment of animals on farms should be ended, and while people have every right to eliminate animal products from their diet, those acts are not in any real respect anti-capitalist.
Cheers,
John

It is good that they are takeing care of the lambs