Aotearoa IMC : http://indymedia.org.nz
Aotearoa IMC

News :: Anarchism : Operation Eight : Police : Prisons : Protest Activity : Tino Rangatiratanga

Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

IMG_4368.jpg

Five arrestees appeared in the Rotorua and Wellington District Courts Wednesday, after Tuesday evening's revoking of Jamie Lockett's bail in the Auckland High Court.

In Rotorua, Tame Iti was denied bail and will reappear on October 24th. In addition, 3 more charges under the Arms Act were laid against him. In Wellington, four arrestees were expected to have a hearing on whether or not their cases would be moved to Auckland, but no decision was reached. All four will reappear on Friday for a bail hearing.

Around 4-5 people in Auckland have been questioned by police on Tuesday and Wednesday, although none have been arrested. It is extremely important that anyone called in for questioning has a lawyer present, and makes no comment whatsoever. There is no such thing as a harmless conversation when it comes to police questioning.

a942.jpg
Solidarity events held across Aotearoa / NZ and Australia

Melbourne, Australia - 30 people gathered outside the NZ Consulate Tuesday morning to voice their opposition to the arrests. [ Report: 1 and 2 (with photos) ]

Christchurch - Around 80 people gathered in Cathedral Square Tuesday evening to send a message of support and solidarity to the arrestees, their families and friends and the people of Tuhoe. [ Flyer ] [ 3 Short Videos ]

Sydney, Australia - Wednesday morning saw 30 people protest outside the NZ Consulate-General. [ Report ]

Rotorua - Around 50 delegates attending an indigenous people's health conference, from the Pacific Basin and North America, marched from the town centre to the District Court for Tame Iti's bail hearing in the afternoon.

Wellington - 200 people attended a demonstration was held today outside the District Court before four arrestees appeared inside. Some people wore stickers stating "terrorist sympathiser". [ Report ] [ Photos: 1 | 2 ] [ Video ]

At this stage, donations can be made to a defence fund organised by Global Peace & Justice Auckland. Identify the donation as being for the defence fund. 38-9000-0099726-00 GLOBAL PEACE & JUSTICE AKLD.

Links: AIMC Feature 1 | AIMC Feature 2 | Remember Security Culture!

Updates

7:51pm - One News reported during their broadcast that Police were currently searching two more houses in Tuhoe country.

Thursday - It now appears that an 18th person was arrested somewhere in the Bay Of Plenty. They were scheduled to appear in the Rotorua District Court Thursday morning. More details as they come to hand.

AoCafe, a popular Tino Rangatiratanga website, has been down since these raids. A comment on AIMC states that "the server which hosts the Manamotuhake and AoCafe websites has been confiscated as part of the raids."

Two houses in in Palmerston North, one in Lower Hutt, one in Wellington, and one at Lake Waikaremoana were searched yesterday.

It appears that 1 arrestee was released on bail in Palmerston North under restrictive bail conditions Wednesday morning. He will appear in the Auckland District Court on November 1st.

In the Wellington District Court yesterday, Michael Bott, lawyer for one of the Wellington arrestees, stated that he had been unable to contact his client in Rimutaka Prison

2:05pm - A Wellington arrestee who is being held in Rimutaka sent his love and thanked everyone for their support. Knowing about the worldwide support they've been getting has made a real difference for those inside.

6:05pm - A house in Taupo belonging to an organic farmer and organiser of EcoFest was raided for 4 hours by 15 Police yesterday.

6:10pm - TV3 News is reporting that around 100 people are currently attending a solidarity meeting in Auckland.

6:34pm - 2 people were in the Rotorua District Court today, both were denied bail. Both have name supression.

 
Comment on this article
Title
Author Anonymous
  Create a new account ?
Text Format

Comment

Anti-spam Enter the following number into the box:
To add more detailed comments, or to upload files, see the full comment form.

Comments

Racial Violence

It seems this group was planning a war on white people.

Does IMC support racial violence?
 

Re: Racial Violence

I find it amazing that people read the newspaper/watch the news and decide they are informed enough to know what is going on. Sure just because the paper says they are terrorist that means they must be right. Grow a brain of your own and start thinking for yourself as at this point you are clearly not capable.
 

Supporting Racial Violence is a Dumb Move

It's you who needs to grow a brain.

You believe that they must be innocent because they're politically correct -- and even if they're guilty, they're justified.

You've jumped on a bandwagon to protest before you know anything at all. And thus, as more evidence comes out, your entire political movement will be discredited in the eyes of the public because you mindlessly sided with these whackos.
 

Re: Supporting Racial Violence is a Dumb Move

Chris Trotter? Is that you?
 

Re: Re: Supporting Racial Violence is a Dumb Move

please re-read my comment and use your brain. Does it say anywhere that I think they are guilty or innocent? I am clearly pointing out how sad it is that we have become incapable of thinking for ourselves. Newspaper says.... tv say uh duh therefore that must be right, me no need to think!!!
 

Re: Supporting Racial Violence is a Dumb Move

Did I say anywhere in my comment that I thought they were innocent or even offer an opinion on that matter???? NO. I simply pointed out that many people have made up their minds based purely on what the media has said. This shows a lack of intellagence on their part and an inability to think for themselve. Perhaps you should read and then think before commenting next time!!!!!!!
 

Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

No, but you appear to believe in Guilty until proved innocent, especially if the accused is Maori.
 

Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

To the first writer , 'its called the injustice of the system" and infact , the guess would be that the majority held on remand in custody are MAORI at the moment , whos face is being slapped around on the media MAORI , guess what 55.3% of our current population that are incarceration are MAORI , MAORI are more likely to be arrested , prosecuted , incarcerated and receive longer sentences , War on whites , well own it if it fits , more like we acknowledge the differences , but hey we have indured the colonial system at its worst . At what piont of your intellect can you understand the grievance ......and like the other movement groups understand the system for what it is...
 

Re: Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

That's a result of socio-economic factors, not racism.
 

Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

All very well to call for solidarity, but how can we be so sure they're not guilty? Para-military training camps (if true) with semi-automatic weapons (also if true) is a very serious crime.
There have been reports that they were planning assassinations. Please, how can you be so sure they're innocent?
 

Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

Because they haven't been proven guilty. As simple as that.
 

Re: Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

"Because they haven't been proven guilty. As simple as that."

This comment is pure class. I suppose at Clint Rickard's trial you were all supporting him as innocent until proven guilty were you? Does it boil down to:

Pig on trial = automatically guilty
activits on trial = automatically innocent

Waht a delightful concept of 'justice' you all have
 

Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

Para-military training camps (if true) with semi-automatic weapons (also if true) is a very serious crime.

Bull shit.

Boy Scouts are a paramilitary organization that have training camps, uniforms, marching, strictly military origins etc. etc.

ie. Paramilitary training camps does not equal crime.

The weapons in question are for sale "on special" "now only $899" at the "NZ's largest firearm dealer"

ie. Possession of the weapons are not a crime.

You are right in saying that maybe they are guilty of something, but nobody has actually said what yet.
 

Re: Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

So if the National Front began training camps where the emphasis was on indoctrination and small arms skills you would have no problem with that whatsoever?
 

Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

I don't think there can be much dispute that firearms were found and used by the so-called activists. Which means in effect what these geniuses are protesting for is the right to bear arms and the right for certain groups, based on race to be exempt from the law. Its made even more ironic that just down the page is an article urging people to protest against weapons dealers at an arms conference.

In essence they appear to want the right to bear arms and the freedom to use said arms to attack a democratically elected government because they don't agree with it. Sounds awfully similar to the NRA.
 

Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

"I don't think there can be much dispute that firearms were found and used by the so-called activists."

Trevor Loudon? Is that you?

In any case: first they came for the Tuhoe. Then they came for the anarchists. Who's next? Exactly how many lefties and activists would you like to see under lock and key? All of them? A mega-Guantanamo near Waiouru perhaps?
 

Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

The people who say crap like the above are making themselves ridiculous. Those of us who know the Auckland and Wellington arrestees are pissing themselves laughing at the idea that people like that would even know which end of an AK-47 to point at the enemy, let alone be prepared to use one. The cops have really fucked up - in their haste to bludgeon the entire left, they've created completely unbelievable charges against well-known and respected activists.
 

Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

Of course I’m commenting from far away in Brooklyn, NY, but fewer than 300 protesters turning out in New Zealand’s second and third largest cities doesn’t sound like a whole lot of support for the defendants to me. Maybe there is more support in Auckland?

Kurt in Brooklyn
 

Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

There were 3000 sheep there too, if that's any consolation. (BTW - I was one of the humans there, so this isn't some slander on the size of the crowd, but a comment on the size of Aotearoa)
 

yfiifyqn

<a href="http://kkhccpbc.com">drxzwjao</a> etxgefsn sixdhpqp.com bbydtjto lplquhwl [URL=http://lyuluwys.com]rluufrbf[/URL]
 

Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

Hi Kurt from Brooklyn. What the fuck would you know about the political situation here in this country? Clearly you are supporting the protesters without knowing the full facts. Protesters = automatically innocent even with evidence suggesting they are guilty?
 

Re: Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

I know more probably than New Zealand rednecks know about Brooklyn.

Kurt from Brooklyn
 

Re: Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

I probably know more about NZ than NZ rednecks know about Brooklyn.

Kurt from Brooklyn
 

Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

Now, there’s a novel idea on how to increase the turnout at leftie rallies—bring sheep! Never would have thought of it.(Of course, a lot of folks on this side of the Pacific think lefties ARE sheep, but that’s another matter). In New York, where sheep are not plentiful, we would have to use substitutes—pigeons perhaps!
 

Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

the unite meeting is at 6.30 tonight
 

Supporting Racial Violence is a Dumb Move

It's you who needs to grow a brain.

You believe that they must be innocent because they're politically correct -- and even if they're guilty, they're justified.

You've jumped on a bandwagon to protest before you know anything at all. And thus, as more evidence comes out, your entire political movement will be discredited in the eyes of the public because you mindlessly sided with these whackos.
 

Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

Who is being mindless? Nothing has been proved but already you are siding with the East German - sorry - police authorities.
 

Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

Ok for a start the word is URUWERA.

I once again wish to say that I beleive the name given to this article makes me very uncomfortable. Labels are an interesting thing and it seems this one is sticking which to me is very sad. I voiced my opinion at the meeting here in Otautahi where it was agreed to take it off the posters but I was not aware it had been used here as well.

My points made at the meeting are:

1st of all this this does tend to suggest that Tuhoe are the trouble makers here. Another label that Tuhoe can do without.

2nd does anyone understand what the Uruwera mean to Tuhoe and how Tuhoe see it ?

I expressed these views at the hui so it will come as not surprise to those who were there.

This is a national problem for all those who seek to challenge governments and the athourity they use to control us. This is about how an act of parliment that was put in place to make our borders safe (their words not mine) is now being used to arrest, harrass, label, blame, condem citizens of this country who have done nothing but organise themselves. This is about freedom of speech, of freedom of thought, of freedom of caring, of freedom of sharing knowledge and cultures.

Please stop using this title/label. You are rehurting Tuhoe again. Should we be doing that?

One of the clear things that is coming out of this is that there is not a great understanding of how each of us thinks and lives. Tame was trying to change that by including many from outside his iwi and beleive me for Tuhoe that decission was not taken lightly. Tuhoe keep their stuff (for want of a better english word) very close to themselves. They are diffferent to other Iwi. And my last point is that we as tauiwi brought the words Maaori to this country. Tuhoe are a proud, strong, determined iwi. I hope this situation brings all of us together to hear our storys as I know Tame would be thinking.

To all u who have been arrested, to all the whaanau of those arrested, to all those who have been questioned, to all you who have had your houses raided, your communitys attacked, to all those who feel this is an attack on you and your hunuku (family) I send you all aroha me (and) awhi (hugs). This is a deep hurt for us all but for Tuhoe this is just another case of their rohe been invaded again. Bloody hell!!!! When will Tuhoe we allowed to rest. I feel a strong sadness for my Tuhoe whaanau all over the country but mostly here in Otautahi as they try to comfort each other and understand this never ending attack from the kawanagatanga.

I hope we can hear the words of Tuhoe at the rally and march on Saturday in Otautahi.
 

Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

"Nothing has been proved but already you are siding with the East German - sorry - police authorities."

And if the Police are right your siding with a group of people prepared to kill and use violence to try and attack a liberal left leaning democracy.
 

Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

fuckin a! you guys rock!
 

Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

If all you Kiwi terrorist supporters in Australia feel so strongly about this take yourselves home and protest there, but don't do it im my country.
 

Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

To the Aussie redneck!yeah im returning back to Aoetearoa next year cos im sick of moron,white,red neck ,ocker shits!
 

Racist comment

Sick of white people, are you?

How would you feel if someone said they were sick of blacks?
 

Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

Whos country is it?
 

Mine.

It's my country.
 

Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

Is dissent criminal in New Zealand? Yes - if it involves weapons and threats to kill. Why can't you people get that idea through you thick heads. Do you actually believe it is okay to threaten violence to make a political point? Do you think it was acceptable for people to actually test a NAPALM BOMB? Do you henestly think the police could not act, given the testing of such a vicious weapon, one that by its nature can only be used indiscriminantly? You people seem unable to address some of the very serious elements of this event. Are there no circumstances under which the police can use force?!?!?!
 

Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

Don't expect a coherent answer on this question anytime soon with these people.
They have an inherent distrust of authority even through they benefit from the system. I've always wondered why they don't go to Burma or Iran and fight real oppression - oh wait thats right beacuse they wouldn't last 5 minutes before they're slung upside down with policement brating the soles of their feet.
 

Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

There are no circumstances in which the police should even exisit!!

Dissent will always be criminal if it will be effective in destabilising the state or captalism. The only reason we are allowed to protest and march is because it is not threating to the established heirachy.

But just because something is criminal does not make it wrong; nor does something legal make it right.

Indigenous peoples all over the world are forced to take up arms to defend their land base and right to self determination. Look at what is happening in with the zapatistas and in Palestine.Many of us support this armed resistance overseas so why should that support be any different when the fight is, rightfully so, being bought to Aotearoa?
 

Re: Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

In palestine, the people are under constant military offensives by a racist (zionist) state. Their houses are destroyed by bombs before their very eyes. Their people are killed without hesitation. Their land is taken and settled by Jews Only. Do not compare the injustice Maori suffer to this. Maori have not grounds for an armed struggle. You want to see a reason for armed resistance, go to Palestine. Till then, shut the fuck up.
 

Re: Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

The only state that does not need any police is a police state.

So said wise old Bill Lee (William Burroughs).

Idealism is a beautiful idea. The reality of anarchy is not so pretty. It's great that you are so positive about the nature of man. You must be to think a state without police would be a good idea. I recommend you go to the library and do a bit of travelling.
 

Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

"I've always wondered why they don't go to Burma or Iran and fight real oppression "

Who cares about repressive dictatorships brutally murdering and torturing a nation when the snails in happy valley are being brutally oppressed.
 

Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

I think you will find that if we do not defend the earth we will all die.

If you did not know this I will explain further; the land sustains all life on this planet and without it we are all fucked.

Any defence of the planet should have everyones full support - that is if you want your self and your family/freinds to live.

That is in no way to disregard the oppersion that is happening to our human brothers and sisters all around the world.

If you look at a lot of indigenous struggle around the world it is as much about defending the land as it is themselves. This is because they are their land; they need it to survive. This connection with the land is something that has been lost from our civilised culture.

Obviously we should do it for mother earth and her inhabitants as well as they do not deserve to die just because the predominant human culture only values money and power.
 

Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

What are you on? or off? (your medication?)
 

What police rapists? (memory loss)

How many farmers in New Zealand have unliscenced weapons? I would not hesitate to say - a very many. So, let's not over-exaggerate the seriousness of owning (or discharging) a weapon without a licence.

I totally support mana motuhake for the Tuhoe nation. And I believe they are justified in using force to protect that. The entire legal system in New Zealand is based upon the unlawful and forceful taking of this land. How convenient it is to forget that and rave on about our democracy. An imposed political system which suits one group of people very well (middle-class, mostly white) and yet tramples all over the rights and life of others.

Whatever their name - KIA KAHA RA KOUTOU
 

Re: What police rapists? (memory loss)

So, you are saying you support Iti and co testing a napalm bomb, presumably for use on mostly white people. Do you support the use of such weapons? Is it acceptable to use them as a form of protest to you? Is it acceptable to cover people in buring petrolium jelly and burn them to death just because they might be walking past parliament at the wrong time, to get a samwich on their lunch break? Someone who is probabily part maori, or asian, or has an asian or part maori partner? Or someone who is white and has a white partner? What does their race matter? Is it acceptable to use weapons against ordinary civilians to prove a political point? That is what you and others are saying. You are advocating, or at least supporting, people testing and probabily using one of the most vicious destructive weapons ever developed on new zealanders regardless of race or creed or aid (for these weapons are notoriously indescriminate). You should think long and hard about that, my friend. You are supporting the 'right' of one group to kill or maime others to make a political point. Are you really comfortable with that?
 

Re: Re: What police rapists? (memory loss)

It's so funny that the cops told you that - or rather, that the media told you that the cops told them that. And even funnier that you believed them.

Seriously - can we identify which right-wing blog the talking point "left-leaning liberal democracy" came up on? Because if we find that we can tell where all these dittoheads are coming from, and go and laugh at them where our friends walk free.
 

Re: Re: Re: What police rapists? (memory loss)

You did not answer my question.

Q. Do you support the use of weapons against other New Zealanders to prove a political point - in this case, Iti and co.This is a hypothetical question, as it did not happen.

The question of whether the police are media are lying about the napalm bomb is a completely different question. If you cannot tease these questions apart and address them face on, with a response, then you are an evasive coward and not willing to address these questions or thick. Which is it? I eagerly await your response. Are you capable of a rational response or only empty rhetoric?
 

Re: Re: Re: Re: What police rapists? (memory loss)

No, I do not support the use of weapons against anyone to prove a political point. Which is why I am totally against these Darth Vader-style police raids.
 

Re: Re: Re: What police rapists? (memory loss)

By the way, I am not 'right wing'. I beileve that violence should not be used to prove a political point, especially if that violence damages innocents, and especially if the methods used are vicious (eg a napalm bomb).

I can almost predict your response. No doubt you will go on about vietnam and how napalm was used there against civilians. That is a completely unrelated matter.

stay on point, please.
 

Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

There was a pretty good interview this morning from National Radio with Derex Fox, editor of Mana Magazine.

It can be listened to online at www.radionz.co.nz/audio/national/ntn/maori_issues2
 

Comments by Derek Fox

kia Ora, ....P...a?? Well done Derek and your comments are too true. Living in a war zone overseas myself and reading the rubbish on the news by the NZ media is totally rediculous. These guys had I believe no war weapons: NO RPGs, No LEDs, No C4. & where the heck is the so called napalm???? It was a joke to read the local paper that terrorists in NZ are going to take the country over yet the media seems intent on being on the world news and scaring the hell out of Kiwis. The media need their head read or maybe they should come to Iraq & learn about what is the real terrorism. If they had training military camps ( but I hear these are Govt funded courses!) do you think a .22 etc would do any damage when the Feds have military auto arms & wear kevlar & can get Army backing at short notice?? Total suicide. I would like to know which town was on their hit list to conquer first-- as Dads army marches in or were they going to ride on Pink Vespas -- as Im sure theres no Humvees & choppers in the arsenal. This is not TERRORISM. Terrorists today work in 2-4 man cells and work with weapons not seen anywhere in NZ. Stop scaring NZders -as this is all crap. The land like you say Derek, and I agree was STOLEN & as more private land is lost to private hands the status cannot reverse. The Maori have a right to what was lost like many indigenous peoples.Those who don't agree read a bit of history in the Maori Land Court & then ask yourself what if you had land taken off your ancesters??? Give it a break Helen and stop amending laws to create the ultimate Police state.There are more serious issues at stake then this. kia Kaha.
 

Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

can someone add the hikoi in whakatane tomorrow to the front of the page?
 

Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

you guys (at 128) are nuts and fully deserved to be raided. Don't deny that you don't have violent ideas and beliefs. I've been there and heard you guys talking - approving of violent acts around the world and suggesting that violence might be necessary. Don't hide behind the 'peace' banner. You know as I know only too well that you are misrepresenting yourselves to the media as simple organic gardeners, etc, when you are really violent radicals. It is clear you will not engage in argument with anyone of a different point of view - the sign of a fundamentalist or cult mindset. I hope you continue to be watched and monitored by police so you can never harm anyone, never let your violent urges and hatred loose on innocent, ordinary citizens that you like to blame for everything, for simply doing the best by their families and working hard to provide for them.
 

Re: Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

Oh, we don't deny it at all! We're quite proud that we "don't have violent ideas and beliefs".
 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

Clearly a typo.

Typical - cheap shots and no arguments
 

Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

The Whakatane hikoi is already on there - I added it at the same time as it was put on the newswire.

And please continue to post comments of events as they are organised, folks - as soon as we see it we'll add it to the feature!

Solidarity,
Asher
one of the Aotearoa IMC editorial collective
 

What are the charges? What are they actually accused of?

I'm most curious to know what the charges against these people are?

Looking at all the media available to me has left me confused....

* Possession of firearms? It's not illegal to possess firearms.

* Possession of "military style" weapons? the weapons mention are for sale "on special" at "Guncity" dealer in Christchurch.

* Running Paramilitary training camps? That is exactly what Boy Scouts do and have always done.

* Possession of Molotov cocktails? Thats petrol in a bottle. What you use to run your lawnmower.

So tell me folks. What are the actual charges? What law have these guys actually violated. Surely that should be public knowledge by now? So what _precisely_ is it?
 

Conspiracy to commit murder

That's one possible charge.

It's not about whether these meatheads have guns or like to run around in camo outfits.

It's about their intention to kill people.
 

Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

Can someone please remove the above comment? It's obviously from a spambot stuck on Repeat.
 

Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

"you guys (at 128) are nuts and fully deserved to be raided. Don't deny that you don't have violent ideas and beliefs. I've been there and heard you guys talking - approving of violent acts around the world and suggesting that violence might be necessary. Don't hide behind the 'peace' banner. You know as I know only too well that you are misrepresenting yourselves to the media as simple organic gardeners, etc, when you are really violent radicals. It is clear you will not engage in argument with anyone of a different point of view - the sign of a fundamentalist or cult mindset. I hope you continue to be watched and monitored by police so you can never harm anyone, never let your violent urges and hatred loose on innocent, ordinary citizens that you like to blame for everything, for simply doing the best by their families and working hard to provide for them."
At last - a cop who can write.
 

Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

My my, what a lot of "violent urges and hatred" in your last post. I very much doubt you have been to 128 Abel Smith Street, because the sort of things you are writing do not describe the Welllington activist community at all.

I actually wonder how anyone can be naive enough to believe something just because some simian in a uniform says it is true.

Lets have a look at the police record shall we. One ex-cop behind bars for rape, one suspeded indefinately for misconduct, another one just convicted of perverting the cause of justice, an independent report taht points to rape and violence being part of general police culture, and another report recently revealed through the Offical Information Act that shows the police are so desperate for recruits they will take people who can't even read.

And you believe them??? Only someone with a "fundamentalist or cult mindset" would be that naive.

Phil
 

Re: Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

You are being so very evasive. You simpy refuse to answer my central question.

IF it is found that groups have been planning to use weapons, including maybe a Napalm Bomb, would you or wouldn't you approve?

I have certainly heard positive affirmation of violence at 128. Usually in the context of suicide bombing. I have also heard fertiliser bombs being discussed. Don't deny it.

The police are not perfect and some of them are idiots. Some of them, like the rapists you refer to, are absolutely vile. But I do not think you can tar the whole police with that brush. I shouldn't tar all 128ers with that brush either. I know many of you are non-violent and interested in promoting worthy causes, even if i don't necessarily agree with your interpretation of world geopolitics, etc. However, you can't deny - one of your number even admitted it in the press - that there is a radical element that would consider violent action, or at the very least, there are people associated with that house who express violent opinions and approve of violence.
 

Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

"And if the Police are right your [sic] siding with a group of people prepared to kill and use violence to try and attack a liberal left leaning democracy."

That's a big If. (About the police and the so-called 'left-leaning liberal democracy'.)
 

Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

It is the role of the police to keep order. How might order be kept without their presence? The New Zealand police are not perfect, god knows. But I for one don't believe the police would have undertaken the actions they did without damn good reason. Eg, recordings of people discussing kinappings or bombings. Even if the people discussing such actions were not serious, I still think the police have an obligation to investigate and act. They can't know how serious peoples intentions are, now, can they? They are flawed ordinary people, not mind-readers. It the information the police acted on was insufficient, this WILL out. Your cynicism towards mainstream media is ignorant. You must realise that because a journalist works for fairfax it does not mean that journalists are coperate minded and push the agenda of their corporate owners. This is just not the case. I know journalists at pretty much every paper in Wellington. They are all left wing, underpaid, and don't have a lot of respect for their corporate owners. They do their best to find out what is going on and are not so naive as to swallow press releases. These are intellegent individuals who do their job mostly out of a sense of wanting to do something in the public good. You must know this. If they wanted to make money and manipulate people they could go into PR easily and make 10 times what they do now.

PS: No, I am not a cop.

You guys should really stop being evasive and engage in arguement, or prepare to be dismissed as nuts.

So long as you refuse to engage with ordinary people and mainstream media, you will be ignored and have no effect on society. You will remain uselessly on the fringe, and some of the issues you are concerned with that really do need to be brought up more often in the mainstream media will get less attention that they deserve. If you really cared about people, this nation, about pluralism, and not simply stroking your own righteous egos, then you would see that.
 

Re: Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

And you're an ordinary person or the mainstream media, huh? Interesting that the mainstream media are intelligence-gathering by snarky posts on Indymedia.

Seriously, aren't you worried that we have already dismissed *you* as a nut?
 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

If anyone poses any challenge to your thoughts you accuse them of having a motive other than simply raising a point to further ascertain what you are thinking, or engage in discussion about other ideas. It's both paranoid and counter-productive to any discussion. Do you think only people who oppose you would ask questions? Have you closed your mind to the point where you can't entertain any other ideas or possibility of questioning your beliefs?
 

Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

The situation here is that a few moronic hippies got carried away by their fantasy worlds and got in over their heads... but follishness is not excuse.
 

Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

I'm a very big believer in the presumption of innocence, and I certainly doubt the police majorly.

BUT, If those arrested are guilty of planning violence, they have my wholesale opposition. And fuck those on this site who are willing to engage in endorsement of violence.
 

Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

ditto to the last post.
Interest: at 11.40 this morning, I was standing near 2 very smartly dressed men on there way to lunch at Springhill...the phone rang," Read Iti his rights and stick to them" was said to the caller!..and dam I didn't get the chance to make conversation.
Five years ago I had a conversation with someone who had gotten involved with Tama Iti and some of his cronies.By all accounts the government had a case to answer, and this group were going to exhaust all legal channels, before resorting to terrorism. This particular group goes back over 20 years and involves a number of learned folk. Part of the program was to pull in radical activists from other organizations.. Perhaps the government knows the case to answer and will have to give up way too much.
On the other hand to target environmentalists, ecologists and organic growers is absurd...they could come for meeee next.! I am eco warrior in a war to save the planet ...facing the worst crisis the planet has ever known...destruction by global warming...it won't matter in 100 years if Iti wore a kilt or I was a vegie grower will it, if we are all swimming..
 

Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

I have a strong desire to live life without having a bunch of stupid rules and regulations. And a strong ethical belief of causing no harm to others.

I certainly don't agree with the use of napalm or other violent acts, applying intimidation and fear
for political gain, sadly is something the governments of the world have done for years.

Take a very close look at the direction the USA/UK/Aust are heading, there is far too much surveillance in NZ, the police have way too much power, and get away with far too much crime of their own (PLEASE read Ian Wisharts investigate article aka the Bestiality incident reference:
briefingroom.typepad.com/the_briefing_room/2007/05/media_release_f.html ).

This article was earth shattering, if what was published is false why haven't they sued Ian ? Why didn't NZ ask WTF is going on ? For those who have not read it, it is FAR more serious than a few cops sitting around watching a dodgy movie.

Only a naive fool would think we are not living in a controlled society, I have lost so much respect for authority over the last year, I have no faith in the system any more. With the police scandals the eradication of more of our rights.. non accountability in govt, what has Annette King had to say about these recent events? The complicity within the mainstream media on many issues is astounding.

Some have suggested, on this thread something to the effect of "Were better off than <insert oppressive regime here>".

Well... maybe for now it may seem that way, is covert oppression really better than overt oppression? Is ignorance really bliss? Just keep telling yourself, they NEED to take away our rights to protect us, they need to spy on our phones and internet use for our own good, they need to implant our dogs with microchips, they need to go thru the public trash to make sure you don't put your personal mail in it... the list goes on.

Seeing this raid go down on Monday has had a very chilling affect on my belief of where we stand in NZ, we MUST protect our rights to freedom of speech, and political dissent, If you think we should just blindly trust the powers that be, you deserve to live in a police state, if you are dumb enough to go around killing innocent people for political gain, you belong in jail (or perhaps the us army), I honestly think those held in Wellington are totally harmless and innocent, we MUST NOT let secret court hearings proceed, if we are blind to justice, we have no guarantee that Justice is really being carried out.

Bickering amongst ourselves only helps those who wish to control us, it is time we really analyse what is happening in this country, and ask how many rights we are willing to forgo in the name of our “security”.

I think Benjamin Franklin summed it up pretty well:
"Those who would give up essential Liberty,
to purchase a little temporary Safety,
deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Good on the Maori for wanting self determination, who can blame them for wanting independence from our messed up government.
 

That's nice.

But what's your stand on a bunch of violent ratbags killing people who happen to have the wrong skin colour?

That's what these 17 terrorists wanted to do.
 

Re: That's nice.

You dumbass, many of the 17 arrested are white.
 

So what?

Nobody said these thugs were smart.

And there are plenty of white people who hate whites, on the far left of politics.
 

Re: So what?

Kerry Bolton? Is that you?
 

Re: That's nice.

Uhh.. maybe you should read the post again, it quite clearly states my position on violent activity and that I do not belive those arrested were hatching evil plots.

By the way most of us can see you are a troll trying to stir up problems for us all, go away.
 

Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

History is repeating itself.
1916 Rua Kenana was arrested & two killed as Police Act on rumours he and his followers supported Germany in WWI. He was convicted in what was recognised at the time by jurists was a travesty of justice.
As for Activists & Bomber starting a hysteria campaign I think a few boys & girls crossed the Activist/Fantasist line.
If Bomber knows anything of Terrorism he shud sit down in front of the cops and spot it out (are the ratings out at the moment).
 

Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

To the writer who suggests it is I who needs to grow a brain, I suggest you try joining the cops. You don't need to be able to read for that. If you had actually read my comment and thought before speaking you would see I offered no opinion on guilt or innocence but simply pointed out the sad fact that we have become incapable of thinking for ourselves. I am sick of people who simply watch the news or read the paper and proclaim that they have reached an informed opinion soley based on other peoples opinions. All media stories are written from someones point of view. It is up to us to make up our own minds, reach our own conclusions, to seek truth because it will no simply be delivered to you by the tv.
 

Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

Look a bit harder all you racist, bigoted fuck heads.. everything IS connected whether YOU like it our not!! This is a huge issue cutting across everyone- if we turn out backs on it the world will turn their backs on it- just like in Burma, Palestine, Dafur, etc and remember this...

First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.
 

Target your audience

I don't think the racist bigoted fuckheads can read this, unless they allow computers in jail. The 17 racist thigs have been remanded in custody.
 

Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

To the racist/ bigotted fuck heads out there
Everything is connected- whether YOU like it not

First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.
 

Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

I've been at Right Wing demos and have seen how well-behaved the lefty "peaceful" people are. Not at all!! They throw bottles and shout threats. They are violent anti-social criminals, who until now have enjoyed far more police tolerance than the Right. So harden up and get over it. If you are going to play with guns you are going to get shot. If you play with fire you will get burnt. You don't make fire bombs unless you are going to use them. When the police come out with the evidence to show that these violent criminals were planning to harm NZers for their politcal gain, you will all look like fools for rushing in like you know everything when you actually know very little. You guys are just addicted to protest, any reason will do. Even the Maori dont support these terrorist arseholes, or they wouldnt need to bring in the low life anarchist scum to fill their ranks, they would have plenty of their own people. Most Maori want to live a good, peacful life like the majority of NZers.
 

Re: Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

"I've been at Right Wing demos"

Yes, I'm sure you have. I think your mates at Stormfront want you to go back, now.
 

Re: Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

"I've been at Right Wing demos" I am sure you have.
You ask how I am sure....it is the last sentence in particular that real puts a nail in it...
"Most Maori want to live a good, peacful life like the majority of NZers"....your a patronising idiot..what the fuck do you know what the majority of maori want.....have you done some comprehensive maori for maori research about what maori want....ummm not!!!....either your pakeha and unaware of exactly how racist your head is or your maori and a station for the oppressor!!!
My moneys on you being pakeha because you presume to know what Maori want, and you are aligning what maori want to fit with the colonial ideal.....what a loser!!!!
 

Re: Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

Uhh, I dunno what kinda lefty demo's you've been to.. i've been to a few and not seen any of the violent activity you claim.

Perhaps you are delusional, I think you should seek some professional advice.
 

Armed Self Defense is a Human Right!

Disclaimer: I do not believe in the use of violence - by anyone - to make a political point or against innocent or random people.

That said, slef-defense is not violence! Everyone has the right to speak out against injustice as well as to be armed and trained to defend themselves, their communities and their political movements. If the people arrested were engaged in such training - good for them!!!

I have yet to see any evidence put forward that those arrested were doing anything illegal - not that laws can dictate whats right or wrong anyway. Even if the quotes being put out there were not taken out of context (and they likely were), that certainly does not equal "terrorism".

Solidarity from Cascadia!
 

Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

Kia kaha koutou ma, hangai ki te kaupapa, te tika, te pono me te aroha, paimarire whanau.

We are all thinking of you and strategising on what our next steps are.
 

Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

what a lot of folks don't seem to know is that while there most certainly is a LOT of white men who are ruing Aotearoa and need to die, there is also some Kupapa that will be taken care of as well, and most Pakehas happy to live in the LEGALLY Existing Aotearoa, and not the toxic fraud "new zealand", will find life can go on as normal. there is bad whitey and good whitey, some (most) bad whiteys are runnin round with guns n badges too. the intent is to jail any and all male Maori ASAP. So what is going to happen?
Kimble Bent wouldn't have it any other way (civil war) any yank will tell you, FREEDOM comes out of the end of a gun.
 

A breath of honesty

At last, here's one who is willing to admit support for what these terrorists were really doing.

Planning a race war.
 

Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

What an astonishingly fascistic thing to say.

How will the 'lot' of white men who 'need' to die be killed? When will the exterminations stop?

To borrow from Pastor Neimoller, posted earlier:

First they came for a LOT of white men who were running Aotearoa and needed to die,
Then they came for some Kupapa who needed taking care of as well,
Then they had to deal with the people who thought they had gone to far and spoke out against it,
Then they dealt with those who protested on behalf of the protestors,
Then there wasn't anyone left, except an anonymous little facist posting hate on a website.
 

Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

Define a Maori- is it someone who feels they are, or are you using the white mans electorl system of determination to decide who is a moari and who is not.
I they want to kill white people, then start with themselves. Where I grew up, in state housing NZ we called them the FBI (Fat Black and Insolent)

What a pack of wankers, lazy good for nothing bastards who take take take, they contribute nothing, they sit around critizing those who have built this country and thats their only contribution to society- they are no different from the coperate raider types they despise.
 

Re: Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

Your posts do nothing to advance your point - which is what? Is this your third post on as many articles commenting on Polynesians and obesity? Please, is this the best you can do? Do you have your own body image issues to deal with? Again, is the name-calling a transparent, contemptuously pathetic attempt to provoke name-calling in response? Further, if you had any analysis and knowledge of NZ history, you would know the so-called white man's electoral system is nothing to crow proudly about.
The originally 4 (now 7) Maori seats were created to disenfranchise Maori (men) who were at the time the major landowners. This deliberate strategy coupled with the land wars contributed to Maori land loss - 66million acres to 2.5 or 3.5mill by 1975. Major invasions of such lands as Waikato, Parihaka and Tuhoe and imprisonment (without trial of some) and state harassment of such as Te Kooti, Rua Kenana, Te Whiti and Tohu have created historic grievances. These, along with modern confications - eg 2004 Foreshore and Seabed Act are not going to go away just because you want them to. Justice delayed is justice denied.
 

Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

"That said, slef-defense is not violence! Everyone has the right to speak out against injustice as well as to be armed and trained to defend themselves, their communities and their political movements. If the people arrested were engaged in such training - good for them!!!"

Thats frighteningly similar to what the NRA say. It would appear that you along with a lot of people in this thread want to live in a country where if you don't agree with a democracy just pick up a gun, make some bombs and use violence to get your way.

The hypocrisy in here is astounding. What would be the response if this had been a Neo Nazi group who wanted to establish white rule and were stock piling illegal guns, running armed training camps, making napalm bombs, molotov cocktails and plotting to use these to get their way.

Would you all still be marching against the evil pigs and defending the right of Neo Nazi's to defend themselves and impose their views on others with arms?

"have yet to see any evidence put forward that those arrested were doing anything illegal -"

And what evidence or knowledge do you have that indicates this is just a vast police conspiracy and the people charged are completely innocent?
You are of course aware that throughout the country numerous Judges who have seen the Police evidence have believed it sufficiently strong enough and those charged such a threat to remand them in custody?

I guess you and others have evidence that the Judges are in on it as well?
 

Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

"self-defense is not violence"

This is something straight out of 1984.

Orwell called it double-speak, and you lot at indymedia seem expert at it.
 

Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

The Wellington district court judge thought the Police evidence was insufficient. That's why the cops are trying to shift the trial to Auckland.
It seems at least one judge is able to be impartial, unlike you.
 

Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

Are there any more updates? Please keep us all posted!
 

Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

So why are Iti and Lockett still behind bars?
 

Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

Its done time & time again... certain judges , every one knows this...lawyers , police , ...they hand pick the judges that are as twisted as them....that they can count on to follow bad law...bad judges every where...and guess what they are protected from their bad decisions...
 

Re: Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

They can book into a judge that they can guarantee will be anti society , but police lovers...
 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

Theyre as bad as the Crown prosecution that will create cases from bad practise...its a learnt profession...good money....from the Crown to the judge...Ill stratch your back today...so that youre scratch mine at a later date....Theyre actors on stage and are really well paid...
 

Re: meow

Sounds like quite a cat fight.

Try asking the right questions--that usually leads to more accurate answers. Being diverted like this does dis-empower.

Could this have nothing to do with Maori self determination (or people saying things they have said for years) or activists of whatever stripe that are now in court? Question your basic assumptions, throw them out, then ask why and for whom.
 

Re: Re: meow

Just get informed , support , unite , the system would lap it up , to create disharmony amongst the supporters
 

Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

"Its done time & time again... certain judges , every one knows this...lawyers , police , ...they hand pick the judges that are as twisted as them....that they can count on to follow bad law...bad judges every where...and guess what they are protected from their bad decisions..."

Police pick the judges now? Don't embarrass yourself any further please.
 

Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

"The Star-Times, which broke the story on Fairfax Media’s Stuff website last Monday, understands the police have seized more than 20 guns, including AK-47s and other military-style semi-automatic rifles, as well as stab and bullet-resistant clothing, camouflage netting, bomb-making recipes and an IRA manual."

You say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know that you can count me out?

Don't you know it's gonna be
Alright?
Alright?
Alright?

You say you've got a real solution
Well, you know
We'd all love to see the plan
You ask me for a contribution
Well, you know
We are doing what we can
But if you want money for people with minds that hate
All I can tell is, brother, you'll have to wait

Don't you know it's gonna be
Alright?
Alright?
Alright?

You say you'll change the constitution
Well, you know
We all want to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well, you know
You'd better free your mind instead
But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao
You ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow

Don't you know it's gonna be
Alright?
Alright?
Alright?
Alright?
Alright?
Alright?
 

Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

I find it hilarious how certain people in NZ are anti-apartied, think that African-americans got a real raw deal, that whats going on with our aboriginal brothers in Australia is just completely wrong, but when it comes to Maori then they dont want to know about it.
 

Re: Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

Not agreeing or supporting seperatists is not the same as not wanting to know about it. Racial speratism is a backwards, reactionary step. Why socialists support it is beyond me.
 

Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

Yawn! www.peta.org is more important than this!
 

Re: Solidarity with the Urewera 17! Free them now!

Free him and let him get back to his pig hunting

there is no real evidence
 

NO MORE EXCUSES

Okay everyone, now that some of what the "trainees" were planning has been leaked to the public, can you still support them? They were planning not only to kill high profile people in NZ but also innocent civilians(there were comments to the effect of "let's kill pakeha's to get used to killing people")

They were going to go to war on their own country. I wonder how they thought they could ever achieve anything this way?
 

Re: NO MORE EXCUSES

we have to kill all the capitalists. unfortunately most of these are white middle class shitheads who go around driving their suv's in crowded city areas. we destroy about 1 million of these arseholes and then the way is clear to take the beehive a establish a real democracy. this is because they won't listen to reason and insist that we live in a democratic society. "you say you wanna a revolution... but if you want money for heads filled with hate you an count me out"... well john lennon was a sissy whiteboy fuckwit who was a 'left cover' for capitaism... and for that matter so was te entire hippy movmenet

violence aint good but we need to smash the capitalist and kill all the pigs in this fucked up apathetic white middle class cunt-ry...

only then can we begin to talk about real change based on giving everyone a fair go.
 

Re: Re: NO MORE EXCUSES

pakehas must accept the shit they have caused since 1769 in this tiny litle country. if they do not do that you are right - they must die or submit to maori sovereignty. to kill a few pakeha is really not a big deal in the scheme of things.

it is the only way of solving the problem that this system has posed since 1769. you say you want peace, but to acieve peace we must kill the shitheads who stand in the way

come on new zealand... rise up and destrot those who have imposed your shackles... too long have we taken it up the arse through our attitude of apathy.