We are appalled at the high-handed actions of the New Zealand state against indigenous activists and call for the immediate release of all those arrested.

The spying on activists and the wanton arrests demonstrate that the state has aligned themselves with the forces of monopoly capitalism, who under the guise of 'democracy' actually continue to plunder the resources of the world and would do anything to continue their domination and increase their profit levels.

The actions contradict the purported aims of the state to accommodate the indigenous people in every way. The actions of the state speak to social control of the working class and perpetuating divisions, much as the previous regime in South Africa did. Local and international working class unity is needed to overcome our common enemy.

We cannot be truly free until the people of Aotearoa are free.

The Anti-War Coalition will be discussing ways of pressurizing the New Zealand government on this issue.

Shaheed Mahomed
Chairperson
Anti-War Coalition (Cape Town)

Think on this, comrades.

Today in Pakistan, terrorists murdered 130 in an explosive attack aimed at Benazir Bhutto. This is what terrorists do. you might say (as some have on this forum) that "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter," but try kepping this in mind when picking bits of your loved ones out of a pile of limbs and shredded flesh.

Why are you all so sure that there is not a kernel of truth in what the police are suggesting was going on? You might say that you know these people, but ponder the friends of the young men who murdered 56 people on the London underground - people who knew them said they were peacable, quiet people. Or the family of Palestinian 'martyrs' who had no idea their loved ones were planning to commit suicide slaughter. Or on a more mundane level, how many people are betrayed by people they loved and trusted. Yeah, we've all been there!

Truth is, you don't know what Iti and his closest associates may have been planning. You want to think they are blameless, because it fits in with the ideological position you've taken up - you're responding viscerally, the paranoid "Us vs. them" reaction. On a tiny scale, you're doing what the USA did after 9-11 - lashing out, minds closed.

Unless the police are fabricating everything (in whih case, why would they bother? Iti an unimportant agitator.) then you have to accept that their actions were justified - maybe not in full, because I'm sure some innocent but niave people have probably been seized as well, but in part, and perhaps in the substantial part. Look at the pictures of dead people in Pakistan, and think about how much you can really trust another person.

You're buying into the misinformation created by the police and media who have pulled out the 'terrorist' line to marginalize the prisoners and their supporters. Did you bother to do some research before making that post?

Of course, I'm the one buying into misinformation being put out by the oligarchs. Not a shadow of doubt in your mind that maybe - just maybe - Iti and his friends might have been thinking about turning to violence?

On what do you base your certainty? The idea that they must be okay because they're on 'your side' and the police and media always lie? If so, you're very niave.

n.b. The above is from me, lurgee. Didn't realsie I wasn't signed in. W ouldn't like anyone to think I was one of the legions of the anonymous.

What! should we turn New Zealand into another South Africa, go fuck yourself, your country and it's people are nothing short of discusting pieces of shit.

Has anyone else seen this disgusting article by Chris Trotter attacking the arrestees? Ahy is he involved in the defence committee in Auckland? He shouldn't be allowed into meetings.
www.stuff.co.nz/4243561a1861.html

What a fuckwit. Is he really involved in the Auckland defence committee? I wouldn't want anything to do with him if he uses his columns to push shit like that.

I didn't think he was involved in teh actual committe - just that he gets let through the door too much. How disgusting though! He should be ashamed.

Good to see how dearly you hold free speech, freedom of conscience and the virtue of dissent, comrade. Tell me, have you heard of Senator Joseph McCarthy? Because you sound a lot like him.

Freedom of speech entitles you to just that, we don't have to agree with it, and we sure as hell don't have to listen to it, or give you a platform for it. If his contributions are going to be that narrow minded and if he's going to attack the arrestees before they've even been tried or any evidence has been presented, then he can keep to his pathetic column, but I personally would prefer that he stay the fuck out of solidarity and support meetings.

His column is poorly researched and confusing, first he references the springbok protests, then he says that those officers were honourable in their actions, I don't see how you can come to that conclusion, unless you want to say that his own personal actions were dishonorable. He says that there are no instances of violence in "in progressive politics", no shit, that's essentially a empty statement.

Obviously, you didn't read Trotter's column very closely. He refers to one officer - Howard Broad - as "honourable and decent", not all police officers who might have cracked skulls in the tour protests.

And it is easy to see that people can be honourable and decent, and still hold radically opposed views to your own. The point that he was making was that Broad isn't a duplicious lying hypocrite who'd frame innocent people.

Again, the reply above is from the dreaded lurgee, unwittingly cowering under the mask of anonimity.

The coward Trotter and the scab Bradbury have this in common - they are running for cover because they assume that "mainstream New Zealanders" will now begin a witchhunt against the radical left. But that doesn't explain why hundreds of white middle class Kiwis have joined the solidarity demos so far.

The "backlash" that these creeps are frightened of has not happened and does not seem likely to happen - despite Greg O'Connor's attempts to provoke it. They are frightened of nothing and their cowardly behaviour will be remembered when this case is over and our friends are free - not the hilarious charges.

Llama Alpaca Militant Alliance (LAMA)
Revolutionary Communique #898742

Comrades,

The Central Revolutionary Command Committee of the LAMA hereby announces its intention to oppose the actions of the Human-Sheep-Capitalist- Dictatorship by freeing the imprisoned comrades.

This action will take the form of a giant wooden llama being wheeled to the gate of the prison as a supposed present. Once the guards have been taken by surprise and wheel the large imitation camelid inside, its nostrils will open and the guards will be snorted upon with copious quantities of camelid mucus, thus immobilising them and allowing the imprisoned comrades to escape.

The giant llama will then open its belly to take the comrades onboard and fly into the sky, landing in the autonomous region controlled by LAMA, where the comrades will find sanctuary and freedom.

Hurrah for LAMA!

*END*

Have I ever told you I love you?

national day of action. The wellington part, when and where?
The freakishly terrifying oppression that has been unleashed on our country must be peacably opposed by every man woman and child.
Our integrity as a nation and a community must be upheld. As such it is our patriotic duty to protest against what is happening now.

This has gone too far.

I have this to say to the police (who are no doubt perusing this site). THINK about why you wear that uniform.
Did you join because you want action, power, the thrill of wielding guns and kicking in doors in the middle of the night? If so, you have found your dream job.
Did you join because you wanted to make a contribution and to protect society? If so, then it is YOUR DUTY to either resign in protest or to place those of your superiors who have orchestrated this fiasco under arrest for their crimes.

I cannot comment on the happenings up north as I know nothing about those save for what has been in the press. But I knopw three of the accused in Welloington. They have been friends for many years. I do NOT believe for one second that they are terrorists. They are pacifists. Certainly they are active in protest over a number of issues, but they abhor the concept of violence and none of them would ever take up a weapon. That would fly in the face of their principle, and their principles are what they live by.

Lets not become like the US or Australia, lets have a little national pride and make a stand.

More than that, they're not stupid. They know perfectly well that shooting people would only turn the public against the issues they've dedicated so much effort towards. People resort to terrorism when they're desperate and have nothing left to lose, which is far from the case in NZ. Though not quite so far as it was a week ago.

"What a fuckwit. Is he really involved in the Auckland defence committee? I wouldn't want anything to do with him if he uses his columns to push shit like that."

Evidentially you have no idea who Chris Trotter or what his background is. For him to be condemning these guys says a lot. He has far more credibility and respect than you idiots and the juvenile hysteria your working yourselves into.

I know who Chris Trotter is, and his background. His so called "credibility" has been sorely lacking for a long time, if he ever had any, amongst the genuine left, as opposed to Labour Party apologisers.

My friends and other grassroots activists are currently sitting in jail - I think that warrants a fair bit of "hysteria", don't you?

Anyone see Cambell Live tonight?

Yeah it was actually quite unbiased, interviewing a member of the camps, who stated the camps were a gathering of individuals (with firearm liscences) learning self-defensive initiatives. Whether this is true or not is yet unfounded, but it certainly seems the Police are scaremongering the public, and linking 'terrorism' to a peaceful movement. Interesting to see if they will use the TSA Act or not on these guys after all.

My thoughts go out to those being held tonight. Kia Kaha

You are a bunch of idiots.

Not even smart enough to get seconded to the Establishment after you outgrow your childish 'revolution' phase.

Just stupid.

we had heard Hamilton was included in the raids but are having trouble learning more about what went down in tghis city. Any body got an update?

i live in hamilton and am trying to do the same
my txt is 0273361803, nick.

I think Chris Trotter has blown it on his own terms.
To put it into perspective - the guy has never claimed to be an anarchist or a revolutionary. He is a left social democrat vocally supportive of civilized behaviour inside bourgeoise democracy.That's fair enough. A hell of a lot of real social progress has been made by some folks from that camp. The key here is consistency.
A basic tenent of social democracy is adherence to the rule of bourgeoise law, which claims, in New Zealand as a cornerstone, the principle Innocent till proven guilty.
In his Dominion Post piece Chris Trotter tossed that foundation aside and instead, without evidence or trial, took the cops word for it as judge jury and executioner.
Broke his own code I think its fair to say.

When the chips are down you can see who your friends are and also the value of the various ideologies offered on the market.

Don Franks

Trotter didn't toss anything aside. The people who have been arrested have not been declared guilty of anything. They have been arrested on suspicion, which is how the system works.

If the charges are credible, they will be put to trial. If not, they chrages will be dropped.

Have you read what Trotter wrote? He hasn't even given those arrested the benefit of the doubt. His entire column rests on the assumption that they are guilty of plotting armed attacks for political reasons. Even the cops (with the exception of Greg O'Conner from the cops union) have been careful not to openly accuse them of this, and have certainly not presented any evidence that proves it.

Trotters column is an example of shoddy journalism and show pony politics. Is suspect what little credibility he had with the left will been seriously knocked by this stance, unless an apology is forthcoming.

Strypes

He does nothing of the sort. He does not say that they are guilty of actual crime, just that the police had sufficient reason to take action:

"Whatever they were doing in the Ureweras, it was enough to persuade Police Commissioner Howard Broad that pre-emptive action was necessary."

The second half of the article is talking about political violence in general, and why it is not an acceptable option in New Zealand. He is not, however, saying that those apprehended are guilt of this:

"And so I say again: "Idiots". For causing my fellow citizens to turn with frightened and mistrustful eyes against the tens of thousands of decent, progressive Kiwis who have devoted their entire lives to making this country a beacon of freedom, equality, and social justice."

He isn't saying they have done anything criminal, but they have created the impression that there was a threat, which will hamper the left. Fighting against Terrorism legislation will be harder now. Protestors will be watched more closely. That will be the legacy of this week's raids.

You're reading what you want to see into this, so you can demonise Trotter, rather than seeing what is really there. Which isn't surprising. Leftists like nothing more than turning on each other. What is the collective now for leftists? A split.

It is you who has failled to read Trotter's article closely enough. you're seeing what you want to see - justification for a witchhunt against moderate voices.

At no point does Trotter state that the people who have been arrested are guilty of anything. Whether or not they are guilty doesn't concern him:

"Whatever they were doing in the Ureweras, it was enough to persuade Police Commissioner Howard Broad that pre-emptive action was necessary."

His point is that their antics - however innocent they might turn out to have been - were irresponsible and necessitated a police response that have shredded leftwing credibility.

The second half of the article explores why political violence isn't needed in New Zealand - inspite of what you Leninists would like to think, New Zealand isn't akin to the occupied territories - and the consequences of the last week:

"And so I say again: "Idiots". For causing my fellow citizens to turn with frightened and mistrustful eyes against the tens of thousands of decent, progressive Kiwis who have devoted their entire lives to making this country a beacon of freedom, equality, and social justice."

The left is going to find it harder to get its message across because of the some loud mouths bragging and playing Che Guevara in the backwoods. The left has enjoyed public sympathy, but that'll be lessened by this. Protesters will find they aren't listened to as much, because of the taint of Iti and his mates. Maori protests and claims will be treated with suspicion because people will wonder if there is a hidden threat of violence behind them.

How very bizarre. I don't know if either or both versions of my reply will appear. If both, I apologize for the redundancy. If neither, alas, whata loss. If only one, you'll think I'm mad for making this post.

When walking passed Marion Hobbs' office before I saw that she had enlarged Trotter's article and pinned it up in her window.

After reading the article I then looked around for a brick.

You are a part of the problem.

You are a bunch of idiots.

"Not even smart enough to get seconded to the Establishment after you outgrow your childish 'revolution' phase.

Just stupid."
Gee, Well thats a real smart comment, real high class posting there.
My advice for all those expressing support for the arrestees is to ignore the dribble the cops are soiling this sight with.

or maybe we do know who Chris Trotter is and his background, which makes his comments even worse. I have read some articles of his in the recent past which i had issues with, but this latest article really threw me.

Much better comment than Trotter's willful ignorance of historical and international antecedents can be found here:

www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0710/S00294.htm

Actually, on National Radio last week, Trotter demonstrateda sound grasp of the historical antecedents of police / military action against Tuhoe.

But don't let that get in the way of a good witchhunt.

I think "ideologically unsound" is the phase which comes to mind.

It's good to see the left turning on each other.

What is the collective noun for leftists? A split.

I posted the first note about his lack of historical and international antecedents. It was based on the article he wrote, not on him as a person. His more recent article clears up some of the lacks in his first one, particularly with regards to the Tuhoe people, though he still hasn't really dealt with the expansion of terrorism laws in other nations that are overstepping the bounds of any reason.

For Trotter's most recent: www.stuff.co.nz/4248869a1861.html

For some international misuses of terror laws: www.wholphindvd.com/wordpress/2007/10/the-likelihood-that-someone-at-some-point-will-accuse-you-of-terrorism-based-on-recent-events-quiz/

And for a youthful picture of Donald Rumsfeld:
www.princeton.edu/pr/pictures/l-r/rumsfeld/rumsfeld'54.jpg

lridnvom [URL=http://dsmjxdec.com]cvhtllgx[/URL] dzizgcmu bjvowcft.com uznbwdjw hrmlollz

hey its katrin from all the way over here in canada...i have been following as much as possible what has been happening all week but its hard to be all the way over here, so far form whanau and crew!!!
i was pretty shocked to begin with and then felt it would get resolved pretty quick cos i mean, how easily are the NZ public fooled by fear tactics??!
but now, more nights in cells and continuing madness, i cant even believe this is going down in Aotearoa...gees!
i would like to give indebted and joyful thanks, praises and recognition to all the brothers and sisters who are standing up, speaking out so presently and beautifully right now...representing all of us and our strength as community(including those of us missing in physical absence!!! :)kia ora. kia ora. kia ora. ake ake kia kaha te whanau toa.
sooooooooo much aroha and support to those in the cells...i am with you, my friends.
arohanui,
katrin
xxxooooxoxoxoxoxooxoxoxooxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxooxxxoooox

i live in hamilton and i'm trying to find out all i can about the hamilton people arrested
this is my number nick - 0273361803.

we could let chris trotter be, and carry on with this discussion. thea is still many people who are trying to inform themselves, but the info is hard to dig up.

A solidarity demo was held at the NZ embassy in Berlin:
de.indymedia.org/2007/10/197371.shtml

And small action took place in Greece:
de.indymedia.org/2007/10/197341.shtml

my post seemed to have disappeared.
i live in hamilton, i'm trying to find out more about the people arrested in hamilton.
if anyone can help with keepin us all informed that would be cool.
my txt is 0273361803 nick.

we can easily let chris trotter be, and carry on doing what we are doing.

i'm not sure why i can only see my first post after i post my second, so sorry to repeat myself.

i live in hamilton, and i'm keen as to inform myself and anybody else who wants to know whats happening to the people arrested in hamilton. cause right now i dont know much at all.
nick 0273361803

If the National Front were arrested and refused bail on the same charges, would you guys be defending them as stridently as you are defending the present arrestees. If not, why not? Because they are ideologically opposed? Fac e facts, if anyone is running around with a gun with the intention of hurting an innocent human, then that person is a fuckwit. At present, the far left's credibility is looking shakier by the minute.

Kia ora

No one who has been arrested was running around with a gun at the time. They have been charged with PAST possession of fire-arms ie at one time they had a gun in their hand which they weren't licensed to use. They aren't even accused of FIRING the gun, let alone firing it at anyone. No evidence has been presented that they had any intention of hurting an innocent human.

I assume you don't like the idea of living in a police state? Innocent until proven guilty mean anything to you?

Why not answer the question - would you be defending the KKK in the same situation? I suspect not.

Secondly, do you even know what "Innocent until proven guilty" means? As far as I can see, no one has been found guilty of anything yet. Some people have been held on bail because a court believes they are a threat. That's how our system works. Are you suggesting that people should have more protection under the law because you agree with their ideological position?

Maybe some of those who have been arrested were innocent but they should have known better.

You lie down with Iti you'll wake up with pleas.

...and now the pleas of a 1000 camels infest our armpits...

...and now the pleas of a 1000 camels infest our armpits...

you asked "If not, why not? Because they are ideologically opposed?"
well, yup, thats right. I wouldnt support the national front on any issue. and I do support those whose idealogy I broadly agree with, especially when they are being attacked by the state. Its called solidarity. I recommend everyone learns what that word means and decide whose side you are on.

Mr G

Mr G

"They aren't even accused of FIRING the gun, let alone firing it at anyone. No evidence has been presented that they had any intention of hurting an innocent human.

I assume you don't like the idea of living in a police state? Innocent until proven guilty mean anything to you?"

What a load of absolute crap. Talk about sheer guessing, you really think the judges are holding them in custody for merely possessing illegal firearms? Oh wait I forgot the Judges are in on this vast conspiracy as well.

"Judge Josephine Bouchier read to the court transcripts of Jamie Lockett's intercepted communications. In them, Lockett allegedly spoke of training to be a vicious commando, he said he intended declaring war on New Zealand and he warned that white men would die"

Yeah sure sounds real peaceful to me. Bunch of hypocrites.

You dumbass, Jamie Lockett is WHITE. Fascist filth don't even both to look at the pictures before their construct their fantasies about dem unruly natives attempting to start a race war.

So what? That would make him a white person who hates white people. It would still be racism and he would still be a racist idiot intent on targeting white people in a race based campaign of violence.

GET INFORMED < BELIEVE EVERYTHING THAT THE PIGS AND MEDIA SAY>>>WELL GET INFORMED GET EDUCATED THEN COMMENT

maybe his black on the inside

"They aren't even accused of FIRING the gun, let alone firing it at anyone. No evidence has been presented that they had any intention of hurting an innocent human."

"The Star-Times, which broke the story on Fairfax Media’s Stuff website last Monday, understands the police have seized more than 20 guns, including AK-47s and other military-style semi-automatic rifles, as well as stab and bullet-resistant clothing, camouflage netting, bomb-making recipes and an IRA manual."

You say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know that you can count me out?

Don't you know it's gonna be
Alright?
Alright?
Alright?

You say you've got a real solution
Well, you know
We'd all love to see the plan
You ask me for a contribution
Well, you know
We are doing what we can
But if you want money for people with minds that hate
All I can tell is, brother, you'll have to wait

Don't you know it's gonna be
Alright?
Alright?
Alright?

You say you'll change the constitution
Well, you know
We all want to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well, you know
You'd better free your mind instead
But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao
You ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow

Don't you know it's gonna be
Alright?
Alright?
Alright?
Alright?
Alright?
Alright?

Q: Why do some people instantly hate activists?
A: It saves time in the long run

SE1G SE1G SE1G

室內設計

i see,i see

Actually, on National Radio last week, Trotter demonstrateda sound grasp of the historical antecedents of police / military action against Tuhoe.office decoration But don't let that get in the way of a good witchhunt.reSidence design

The above is from me, lurgee. Didn't realsie I wasn't signed in. W ouldn't like anyone to think I was one of the legions of the anonymous.!!!thanks for !!

im coming 2 auckland 2 protest outside the high court 2 support all the people this facist law has illegally arrested , i am a self proclaimed terrorist , any one who stands up against an injust government is the same , love and light my friends