We demand the release of all our friends NOW NOW NOW. Release our whaanau NOW NOW NOW.
Right Now.

This is what Solicitor-General David Collins said in giving his decision, transcribed from Radio NZ:
www.radionz.co.nz/audio/national/news/20071108-1600

I have advised the commissioner that I am unable to authorise the prosecutions that had been sought under the Terrorism Suppression Act. The responsibility for deciding whether to authorise the proposed prosecutions rests with the solicitor-general pursuant to section 9 of the constitution act and the convention that it is the solicitor-general rather than the attorney-general who determines applications of the kind made by the commissioner in a case such as this. This process insures that there is no perception of political influence being brought to bear on what is essentially a legal process. In making my decision I have considered all of the evidence that is available to date, assessed the relevant law, applied the law to the evidence, made an assessment of the likelihood of any prosecutions succeeding and decided whether or not it is ultimately in the public interest for the prosecutions to proceed. My role is therefore different from the police, who are required to investigate suspected crimes and, in a case like this, place that evidence before me to determine if prosecutions should be brought.

The evidence which I have examined has included many hundreds of pages of intercepted communications, a large number of photographs taken by the police during their surveillance operations as well as video footage of events observed by the police. Regrettably not all of the evidence that I have been able to consider will be able to be made public. I know that this is a source of frustration for the police, undoubtably for the media and I'm sure for the general public. However, I can say that in due course a significant body of the evidence will enter the public domain during the course of the hearings of the charges brought under the arms act against the people whose cases I have considered. In considering in detail all of the available evidence, I am very satisfied that the police had a sufficient and proper basis for investigating the activities in question under the provisions of the Terrorism Suppression Act. The police have in my opinion also acted very properly in referring the evidence... (audio feed interrupted)

Chris Traitor and Bomber Bradbury are looking pretty stupid right now.

Awesome.... bloody awesome, right now i'm speechless.

What a relief, it would have been a Dark Day if the terrorism charges went ahead. A big wake up call to constantly guard our civil and human rights. And the Solicitor General says the Terrorism Suppression Act is incoherent and should be completely reviewed.

oh my god!
everyone from wellington is getting bail tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!!

Some details removed on advice from lawyers as it could impact negatively on bail hearings. Asher (AIMC Editorial Collective)

what da hell is this shit, speak a language we can understand & stop wasting valuable space on this important web site-Clown

Brilliant news! Now we can see the Urewera 17 all out on bail, to fight the Arms Act charges.

That said, Cullen is sending the TSA to the Law Commission, and it looks (from David Collins comments) that it will be to tighten the law, not ditch it. So that will need a big effort too.

Time to get rid of all terrorism laws - they criminalise the thoughts in our head, not the deeds we do!!! No more political prisoners!

Oh, and yeh, Trotter and Bradbury are looking pretty silly right now, though I'm sure they will claim the 'evidence' to be revealed under the Arms Act charges will show they 'really were "terrorists"'.... yeh, right!

"..I'm sure they will claim the 'evidence' to be revealed under the Arms Act charges will show they 'really were "terrorists"'"

Maybe not - a lot of the evidence that was collected under the TSA will not be admissible in court under arms charges. Hehe.

Once again the cops end up covered in dung.
Plus Chris Tosser, Fraudbury and all the others who rushed to judgement.
Repeal the TSA!

You're misrepresenting what was said. All they said was that some people had been up to some very stupid thing, not that the police had a legally watertight case under the TSA. The TSA has never been used in NZ, and is not well-designed for use against any domestic organisation as it is primarily aimed at UN-designated international terror groups. Frankly, any prosecution was always going to be fraught.

The fact that terror charges are not being brought does not affect the possibility that the alleged events happened.

Or is Clint Rickards innocent around here now?

SG says the TSA has a very high standard to be met by evidence and calls for its review. Cullen says he will review it. That means one thing. More repressive amendments to the TSA ahead. Prepare.

Repeal TSA & launch a Royal Commission!

i'm so fucking happy! this is the best news ever!

but we can't stop fighting! i want everyone out of prison. i want all the charges dropped. i want the TSA repealed, not 'reviewed'. and then i want to abolish capitalism and the state and establish in their absence a society based on self determination and mutual aid.

Yeah, great. Just what we want, idiots running around with radical ideas, firearms they shouldn't have, petrol bombs no one needs, training more idiots in army style tactics. If they are all so innocent, why did they do it all in secret? Why do they need illegal firearms and molotovs? And why do they need to talk about assinating people? Go the Police. Pity that we haven't got a law to cover what these subversives have been up to.

Who says they were? Only the police, and they have not exactly shown themselves to be models of honesty and integrity in recent years. And how can anyone be arrested for having Molotov cocktails? A Molotov cocktail is not something that can be stored. It is something that has to be made and used straight away.

I have some 2-stroke lawnmower petrol in my shed, some beer bottles in my recycle bin and some rags in my kitchen. Under police logic that means I could be arrested for possessing Molotov cocktails as well. The whole police operation is a farce!

Besides I know some of the arrestees, and they would not know which end of a gun to point, let alone possess one.

Phil

Besides I know some of the arrestees, and they would not know which end of a gun to point, let alone possess one

Thanks Phil, i agree(i can't stop Laughing at your comment) u r right.

Why are you removing all posts you don't agree with?

"Once again the cops end up covered in dung.
Plus Chris Tosser, Fraudbury and all the others who rushed to judgement.
Repeal the TSA!"

Are you really just that stupid?

Its the poor design of the TSA and the extreme standards it presents that meant that charges weren't laid under it. And you want to repeal it, fucking genius.

As stated by the attorney General

"But, while commending the police investigation, he described the terror legislation as "complex and incoherent", and said it should be reviewed by the Law Commission. He said it was almost impossible to apply to domestic terrorists."

"Its the poor design of the TSA and the extreme standards it presents that meant that charges weren't laid under it. And you want to repeal it, fucking genius."

Not only was the TSA dubious in a overly-dubious raid, it is extreme, to say the least, in it's inception toward NZ's way of life. Repeal it back to America.

I agree the site is using censoring opions that don't agree with their own- half the posts are missing.
It gives the illustion to these people that they have wide support- fact is you don't.

Because this forum is not for a... holes like u of course

If we all removed all the posts we disagreed with there wouldn't be any posts left ;) If eds are removing posts it is because they breach the editorial policy:
indymedia.org.nz/mod/info/display/policy/index.php

We put up with a lot of foaming-at-the-mouth right wing trolling around here because, unlike the NZ state, we can actually tolerate people having wildly different views from ours. Comments on this site represent the person posting them, not the volunteer collective that runs it. If you want to embarrass yourselves by supporting the expanding police state, be our guest. But don't expect much encouragement from other posters.

Strypey

Well there you go, you can't trust violence hippies

Repeal TSA & Royal Commission now

Hold down shift or ctrl (depending on your browser) and click Refresh or Reload.

That will force loading of the up to date page.

Awesome , now , wait for the heavy arms charges , so keep up the support and the questions , brillant that the amendment has been referred to the Law Commission , but i thought that theyre already expressed their concern!! Now to be aware of the other amendments ie Electoral Finance Act , TRASERS , Immigration ACt ( amendments ) and others I say be cautious theres still time to come!!!

Keep tight and keep thoughtful cause we have to stay united and continue the behaviours of the police state

The Solicitor General referred to the high level of proof required -- and that was not met -- inder the current Act. We should assume that any review will look at lowering that threshold. So while we should celebrate the Solicitor General's decision in this case, we must be alert to the fish hooks lurking in his decision. As I learnt in the environment of the 1960's, winning the battle is not the same as winning the war.

Yes it is a real concern that the legislation will now be changed to make it easier to bring charges for internal civil disobedience, political, environmental or union activism. Hey but so pleased Indy Editor Omar now out, lets hope the rest of the charges turn out to be trivial and get thrown out.

It's good for justice to attempt to restore its moral authority, and subdue the government's abitrary machine...
It's about time and hopes its consistent...

Thank Tou 'Indymedia' for your coverage of this important issue. I'm glad all those arrested will be back with their Whanau. God Bless you all.
Freedom Forever.

> Oh, and yeh, Trotter and Bradbury are lokking >pretty silly right now, though I'm sure they >will claim the 'evidence' to be revealed under >the Arms Act charges will show they 'really >were "terrorists"'... yeh, right!

Well, I was half right - Bradbury is first out of the blocks, with his claim "they never were terrorists", while at the same time claiming this is only because the TSA "allows for domestic activism" so well!!!

tumeke.blogspot.com/

From police apologist to terror law apologist - nice! What next Bumbler, free class trips to Gitmo?

Isn't it so conveeeenient for Fraudbury that those horrible facts that would make ordinary, mainstream New Zealanders take up pitchforks and torches and lynch all the Tuhoe and anarchists they could find will never be tested in open court or exposed to the cruel light of day? That Bomber will be able to gossip with Chris Traitor and his mates about it until their dying day, in the knowledge that they were right all along... it's just it can never be proved? Sad.

Seriously, we said all along that the real reason for these raids and for the use of the TSA was to intimidate radical activism. Perhaps the SIS (who were the real power behind this) double-crossed the cops, making them think they had enough evidence to win, when really they only had enough evidence for a public relation campaign against scary people (which Traitor and Fraudbury fell for)

One more thought - is anyone else REALLY SCARED by the crap coming out of Howard Broad, that the problem with the current law is that you can't arrest people until they've committed a crime or are planning a crime? That he wants powers to arrest and charge people who MIGHT COMMIT CRIME SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE? (Ref: P. K. Dick, "Minority Report")

Yes People of Aotearoa the SG David Collins has restored Dignity back into the Hearts of the people and we do thank him (for his Discission)of Justification to this Legislation of this situation that has effected Aotearoa set at the hands of the so-call Politcal Power-player in our Country.

We are still not out of the woods yet,for as we know there will be changes made to this so-call Legislation and this is,what we have to be concerned about.

What issues we are still faced with is, Civil Individual Rights and Freedom of Expression and as to this,what & how much consideration & acknowledgement will given to this within the re-structure of this so-call legislation.

The Government will not make re-structure of a Legislation,that is not effective to the purpose of what it was constructed for,so as i have indicate we are not out of the woods yet.

Be aware People Of Aotearoa

Kia Ora The People of Aotearoa: To all those who will be in Auckland at the Court Hearing Tommorrow
Tino Rangatiratanga Kia kaha and Keep Safe as you ses come to stand side by side (United in Heart) to express your Deep & Humble concerns to how our BROTHERS & SISTERS have been treated inrelations to all of ours and their Civil Liberty,Human Rights & Freedom of Expression.
So Safe Journey & Keep Safe

Kia Ora Koutou Aotearoa Tino Rangatiratanga

this without a doubt will send a few old timers packing. this was a race issue made to order by the pigs from day one. the number of pakehas joining with the dreaded Maori are what became to much to bear, now in the face of empty "terrorist" charges and looking ignorant in the public (more so than usual), infighting and heirarchy collapse is inevitable.

Please - someone knowledgeable about this case, go to en.wikinews.org and work on their news articles. You can register in ten seconds and editing isn't hard. People in the U.S. have very little context to judge if this was truly a case of armed resistance or an elaborate frame-up. Remember, even though many here blame the U.S. for all this trouble, a lot of America's worst legislation was proposed in Britain or Australia years before we ever heard of it or imagined it might pass in the U.S.

They're still in jail though...

We would have got better result if we were allowed to use waterboarding.

tell me you are fucking joking!?!

what does all this mean for the amendment to the TSA that is about to go through parliament in its final reading? it needs do be suspended immediately.

Woohoo! That's awesome news, but I agree that the review of the TSA could be a dangerous opportunity for the government to tighten it up.... I think we need to see a big movement against it, really take this chance to fight against it and let the government know we don't want this bullsh*t in New Zealand....

Woohoo! That's awesome news, but I agree that the review of the TSA could be a dangerous opportunity for the government to tighten it up.... I think we need to see a big movement against it, really take this chance to fight against it and let the government know we don't want this bullsh*t in New Zealand....

To take the positives from this experience it seems to have woken alot of people up to the lies and mis-truths of the government/police and media in Aoteroa. From day one this was called "Terror Raids" without any charges being laid in relation to this. Trial by media commenced immediately and the propoganda machine took care of the rest. The Right-Wing media in this country are now spending their time concentrating on the obvious "problems" with the law instead of the huge miscarraige of justice that has occured for these 17 people and their families. They have manufactured the consent of the Public without producing one shred of evidence. It makes me sick. Whats worse is that people are so misinformed that they swallow this crap and reguritate it around dinner tables nightly....propagating the lies/hatred and racism that this whole affair has been based upon. I feel sorry for the children who are to young to make their own decisions and are being force feed this by their ignorant parents.

Our government has showed it's true colour's.
And they are red white and blue.

The time is now

All it has proved is the current law is badly drafted- as one Maori said: "Even Osama could not be convicted under our current laws"

You have very little support in the community and one the benefits of this, is that has brought into light what a load of crackpots many of your group are.

Taking your children on these marches is nothing short of child abuse, they are adult issues and children should not be used in such way.- I often think CYFS should be on hand to identify these children and there care givers

Awww, stop being bitter. Your attempt to institutionalise thoughtcrime in New Zealand law - the idea that people should be able to be arrested without doing anything or even PLANNING to do anything, but just because some cop thinks they MIGHT do something - has failed. Lick your wounds and go back to thinking of another way to put people who piss you off in jail, there's a good lad.

Which Maori was this???? Must have been Winston Riwai Peters.

If you don't like what you see here head back to the redneck section in the NZ Herald Views. And stay there.

I thought Winston was chinese?
The worrying thing is that the idiot represents this country overseas. I cant bear to think about it.
We should make Hone Harawira our foreign Minister, at least he has the balls to tell it like it is.
"John Howard is a racist B&^%^&*d"

That guy is my hero.

Haha. Is his middle name riwai? what a potato!

This is an issue that involves all people - not just adults. To leave children behind while adults march is making a decision for them, just as taking children along is.

This is fantastic news! Thanks to you Asher for your hard work (and to everybody else who pitched in to help keep us informed).

For the poster who was concerned about the Wikipedia article and how it would be viewed in the US - no worries. Despite what our media (or government) might lead you believe...we don't all see terrorists under the bed. ;)

Arohanui to all affected - there must be some happy (and relieved) whanau and friends out there today. Wish I was there to celebrate with y'all. :)

Cheers,
Debra

Hooray, commonsense prevailed!

Lots of cop-loving, surveillance-loving fascist and neo-nazi trolls on this thread.
Just remember that your children and grandchildren might not be so happy when cops start arresting them for thought crimes, like the Urewera 16 were, under some future 'anti-subversion' law you and Broad are calling for.
The last 4 weeks have been straight out of Orwell's '1984'.
The person who predicted the NZ Police will now engage in an internal purge could be right. Terror fantasist White should go, at the very least.
Fortunately we still live in a country where the judiciary have the last word on whether an activist is a terrorist or not.

Bloody brilliant - way to go Indymedia, and those bitter, sad rednecks who continually come on here to rain on your parade can bugger off.

geeee,, I wonder where the pressure came from? and boy do the cops look fried.
they should have stuck to plain old racism, they've done stirred the whole hornets nest good this time.

Err you guys might actually want to read the David Colins full judgment before rushing to conclusions. Its basically inferring that the 'accused' are domestic terrorists and that the act needs to be amended to include such groups.

I love this. According to the cop loving troll above, if the Solicitor General says you're a "domestic terrorist", that makes anything the cops want to do to them okay! That of course isn't the law of New Zealand, but of course these people think that their personal prejudices ARE the law.

LOL Gotta love your attitude. If someone has the least divergent opinion from you then they're a cop loving neo nazi. Well think about this then. The flaws in the TSA will be fixed with a lower evidentary threshold to be satisfied. It's going to be much easier to catch you and the rest of the 'freedom fighters' next time around.

I think the phrase hollow victory comes to mind

If you only had "the least divergent opinion" from us, you wouldn't be getting all moist and excited at the thought of throwing us all in jail, would you? You must really hate hippies, Maoris, people who dissent from the government or all of the above, so "cop-loving neo-nazi" sounds accurate.

Straight out of Orwell's '1984'

War = Peace
Surveillance = Freedom
Domestic terrorists = Activists

So right. Broad and his trolls are on another planet where the following are crimes:

Suspicion of being a terrorist
Suspicion of conspiracy to commit a crime
Consorting with Maori activists
Political dissent
Activism
Protesting
Looking different
Thought crime (thinking or talking about committing a crime)
and Loitering with intent to use a pedestrian crossing.

So... where are the celebration parties being held tonight? I want to give a political prisoner or two a great big hug.

Prime 'terrorist' Tame Iti has been bailed - the entire Police case is now in tatters.
$8 million to turn up three unlicensed weapons and a few unguarded comments out of 18 months of SIS surveillance of 60+ people. Genius.
Howard Broad is hoping the public have already forgotten him saying he was putting his career on the line over this fiasco.

Tena koutou katoa

celabrate please

but then lets get the work done. This is not the end but just another beginning. I am so excited that Tame is out at last. I look forward to maybe seeing you down Otautahi way Tame. We would love to see u taku hoa. I wish I was up there to hongi me awhi u but this will have to do. See you some time and all those who are free at last. Lets party NOW. Then lets organise.

Many THANKS go to the Solicitor General David Collins for the much Justification of this so-call TSA (Legislation)that has paided heavily on the circumstance that have arisen and effected many People in Aotearoa and wordwide.

Huge congrats to Val, Emily and Omar, and the others who are now bailed, like they all should have been weeks ago. As others have said, this is a scary time, keep your wits about you everyone...and watch out for those amendments to give police the right to charge <ahem> 'domestic terrorists' in the future, with the same pitiful excuses for evidence.
*hugs to the finally-free*
Ankh

151565

Haere mai Koutou e Tame,Valerie,Emily,Omar and others Tena koutou.

I was down there earlier,but had to get back to mahi,but good new all round and this your time to be reunited with your whanaus (first and Foremost)

A big Mihi goes out to all those their today and who were'nt able too be there, to Tautoko their Families and Friends,your Mana will reign strong in Aotearoa always

Kia ora Koutou Aotearoa Te Mana tangata te Mana Whenua Tino Rangatiratanga Kia ora

all have now been released on bail!

Hopefully all 16 will now sign consent forms allowing the Police to display to the public all the intercepted evidence they gained under the TSA so we can see just what a fraudulent claim they have.

I'm sure those released will have no objection to the public seeing the full police case against them.

There was a interview with Police specialist earlier on today and it seem that the evidence the police have can not be made public,but for some reason TV3New seems to have been given some written info inrelations to the evidence Layed opon those accused. Again we ask how justifiable is this evidence(apart from what they are saying) happened.??????????

Tame Iti released on bail
http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=1Yme1DlAHIs

Looking forward to seeing my friends again, safe happy and free down here in Te Whanganui A Tara.

Somethings very fishy going on here,TV3 announced they had some evidence of what the Police had charged the accused on,under the TSA,TV3 leak some of it,then on (Campbell Live)John gets a Legal gag put on him,to not make it Public. I,m wondering if this so-call evidence is not a (hole lot of Bull)conspired to suite the Police only.??

The police are getting pretty desperate.

The presentation of inadmissible evidence in support of non-association orders is hardly staying straight and flying right either.

If the Solicitor General charged TV3 with breaching the suppression orders, he would have to charge Helen Clark for her earlier disclosure.

joy
am bottling terrorist-out today
dated 9/11
love to all the free

maybe change that to activiSTOUT
LOV AND FREEDOM

Has anyone actually asked Tame if he was involved in these training camps and if they were intending or planning to attack certain public figures and places?

Or is that irrelevant.

I am so glad!

Congrats and hugs to all our friends, free at last.
Biffo the Clown

So if the lot that were arrested were so ok with what they were doing, why did they have to keep it secret? Why didn't they come out and tell everyone what they were doing?

Maybe they knew they were breaking the law.....Now there's a thought.

The logic seems to be it is secret, therefore it is illegal. A few minutes thought should convince you about how ridiculous this assertion is.

As an animal rights activist, I keep details of future protests secret, I keep all publications secret until I am ready to publish them, and all research findings are kept secret until I can reveal them at the best time. The reason is obvious; I don't want to give the opposition time to organise their own media strategy.

Anyone in business does the same with any intellectual property.

When selling my house, I keep the offers made by potential buyers secret from each other. No business will reveal the price they paid for goods for the same reason.

Other things I like to keep secret are:

My sex life
Domestic squabbles
My salary
Any health issues I have

etc., etc.

Get the picture???

Phil

Hey Asher,
love to you, this has been a mission to keep on top of this week & you have done amazingly well. This is the best news, and has made keeping the internet burning this week a worthwhile task.
Hope the partee's good in Ak tonite, give a shout when you're in Welli on the way through, you're in line for at the very least a big hug!
aroha tino nui, na Kerry

"Damage to govt property is damage to the tax-payer - it means less money for hospitals, and more taxes. You can't argue for a more redistributive economy and argue against taxation at the same time..."

The argument has nothing to do with taxes. It has to do with average 'kiwis' getting off their apathetic asses and telling the government they have kept our wealth for too long. 'Grass-roots support' that votes for mainstream politics is only support for what you call an 'abstract system' that continues to keep wealth from the majority of working new zealanders.

And the argument is definitely not about redistributive reforms in order to 'benefit' the lower classes. This is supposedly what labour has been doing since Nov, 1999. This 'strategy' invariably perpetuates the growing levels of 'kiwi' inequality that inspired the urewera 17.

Rather, the argument is about revolution:

revolutionaries are not violent people. the state and its repressive police and military apparatuses instigate violence and inequality. the revolutionaries - those with enough guts to do something - simply defend their interests and if possible seek to build a better world first by supplanting capitalism and then by establishing laws that preserve equal rights (i.e. real democracy).

is Rawiri Iti and Tuhoe Lambert out yet? I have not heard. Are all of the arrestee's out???

they will apply for bail on monday

- simon

If the Solicitor General says you're a "domestic terrorist", that makes anything the cops want to do to them okay!

And if you say they are not, we should what?- of course keeping in mind that you're an opinionated nobody, with none of the facts in front of you

The truth will come out, that truth being that you have a very soft life in this country and even someone as creepy as you has a voice.
In the world you wish to create, a right wing paradox- no one but the Noir left, the chosen elite will ever have a say- what do you say Adolf?

The Winston Peters puppies here obviously have no understanding of judicial process. The way for evidence to become in the public arena is through a trial in a court of law.

Now all this TSA crap is out of the way, we will see a (hopefully) fair trial, and you can see and hear all the evidence for yourself.

Inform yourself before you start slagging off people who are unable to defend themselves.

In many people's eyes, the main evidence against Tame Iti is that he is Maori.

This whole fiasco has exposed the ugly redneck racist underbelly of white NZ.

great news that prisoners are freed

I was a baggy in the Army in the mid 90s & a Tuhoe WO1 ex Viet Nam vet taught us a Tuhoe styled haka for our Log Bat trip to Samoa. He had big black panda eyes. Is he one of the guys dragged into this. Sorry no names - can't remeber his.
The haka was real cool we had guys in the jungle and I was one of the guys lying under vines in the open - The Samoan MPs jumped back when 4 ft infront of them soldiers jumped out of the ground.

"
Now all this TSA crap is out of the way, we will see a (hopefully) fair trial, and you can see and hear all the evidence for yourself.
"

No because the Defense are going to try and suppress the evidence gained under the TSA so the public will never see it.

How they can then public statements that their clients are innocent and the Police over-reacted then at the same time refuse to release to the public the grounds the police acted on?

Whose going to believe them now that they are trying to hide the evidence. The fact that they are trying so hard to keep it hidden is a pretty damning indictment that the Police did have serious evidence and solid ground for taking the actions they did.

What a load of crap. The police are trained to be underhanded and dishonest - after all what do you think being undercover is. It's certainly not being honest. Or is this type of dishonesty justified because its the police doing it?

And who is to say that the police in their effort to justify the millions of dollars that they spent trying to prove their paranoia haven't edited out significant parts of these telephone taps, vehicle taps and video surveillance. After all they had (and still do) a virtually unlimited budget to work with and access to the the type of expertise big bucks can pay. And guess who leaked the "evidence" to the media??? When the defense lawyers weren't even allowed to see it, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out.

I have no faith in our system. You others are right. It's 1984 and Big Brother.

The opposite is equally true. How can the police/govt tell the general public to wait until they see all the evidence before they judge whether the raids were justified while at the same time suppressing huge chunks of the evidence, even from the defense.

hooray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know there have been lots of comments saying this already, but i am so happy they are out it has improved my whole week
big love
A. Mollusc

Right on! we knew the cops must have been under incredible pressure, and now failing to label Maori as "terrorists" makes them look more like the bumbling oafs they are. Broad looks like an alki, and is the poster child of racist arsehole.

funny how some judge shopping goes on, I'd bet the "law" will be reworked by queen helen to also include retroactive charging,like in usa.

how unfortunate for the house nigger winnie to now admit he's been working against the "NZ" public. he never does say the words Aotearoa, kinda like he's afraid to.

"and now failing to label Maori as "terrorists"

I think you should talk to Maori my friend and Tuhoe in particular. The damage has been done. That is the whole point. U dont need to be guilty you just need to said to be.

I am still upset I missed the party in Whakatane. : (

Can anyone tells us how it all went pleaseeeeeee.

too right, actually the real damage was done long ago, sadly some Kaumatua decided compliance with crown theft would be tolerable under a treaty. then came the damage, 200 years of abuse like what just happened. it is time to put an end to the abusers (Terrorist Colonialists) reign. a campaign of targeted assassinations is in order for a neat conversion with few or no innocent casualties.

I'd hate to be a NZ cop/judge/politician about now.

If you are serious you need to think about the consequences of using unjust means to try to achieve just ends. If you are joking, you need to consider that this sort of joking is what constitutes the police evidence for terrorism against the Urewera 16.

If you are a right-wing troll putting words in people's mouths, fuck off back to Winston Peter's bosom and take your paranoid fantasies with you.

guard our civil and human rights.... start by taking the police commissioner up on his word...

Rememmber he said he would stake his CAREER on the outcome, does anyone rememmbeer him saying that , C'mon.. RESIGN god damnit

We are all waiting for all our whanau to return. still 3 more to be released on bail.
This battle has been won for now however the war stills rages on. We are still labelled as terrorists no matter what evidence is going to come out. The majority of Nzers (according to the so called stats) still think that us Tuhoe are going to plot goodness knows what.
To steal a quote from Yoda - fear leads to anger. anger leads to hate, hate leads to the dark side. What are you afraid of???
When we haven't done anything??? The government is the real threat, they have the power to what they want when they want. They have shown that they are capable of irrational behaviour with this raid debacle. Howard Broad resign. Actually everyone should vote a more reasonable Govt in, the next election.
Racism is such an ugly thing.

2 right. The dark underbelly of NZ has been exposed - not just by the stormtrooper policemen but also by those frothing at the mouth to justify it all. It is ugly.

The problem with the average NZ'er is that he/she is a hardline conformist, a zealous follower. This mass addiction to conform has produced what inevitably happens with addictions.

*****The problem with the average NZ'er is that he/she is a hardline conformist, a zealous follower. This mass addiction to conform has produced what inevitably happens with addictions.*******

You are no different, most of us sit back and watch in disgust as you clod's go about trying to divide the country on racist idioms.
What is your addiction to chaos, why do you need to feel threatened to feel alive?
Be really glad that most of New Zealand is just a spectator in this, when I hear mention of the Tuhoe Nation, I think of sedition- what fucking Tuhoe Nation, they lost- get over it the Tuhoe no longer exist, they people calling themselves Tuhoe are just brown skinned Scottish and English descendents partaking some bastardised Gaelic belief system-

Back in the HART days Minto came across as an angry young man, angry at the world but so just more just angry at his self. Now that he has grown, he is another angry frustrated Old Man, and a tad sad.-at that
Hamad , could chose any path he liked to walk down, he has choices that many of us don’t. Instead he has chosen to walk down the path of destruction-.

XOR

You poor, sad bastard. Get over yourself. You're frothing at the mouth .... AGAIN. What do you know? You believe all the shit they spew out on the media. Obviously an ignorant fellow. The English are not Gaelic. Only the Scots, Welsh and Irish (and Cornish). English derive their roots from the Angles, Saxons and Jutes of Europe, and a bit of French (from William the Conqueror) and a bit of Roman (from the Roman Empire). At the very least get your facts right if you are going to run off at the mouth, idiot. And if you don't like what you read here, the answer is simple. Fuck off.

It is scientifically proven that the English are more than 66% of Welsh ancestry and around 25% of German ancestry. You can look it up if you like.

given your reactionary comments, I can see why you refer to yourself simply as 'XOR'.

Keep hiding. At least you might live.

Tena koutou, he whakaaro noa iho. but why promulgate the term Urewera 16. It implies much negativity about Te Wao o te Urewera when used in this context, especially to those who have no connection to the place and to those who know only what they read in the papers. Freedom Fighters that's what they are. Koira noa iho taku.
Naku noa,
He Uri

"why do you need to feel threatened to feel alive?"
"most of New Zealand is just a spectator in this"

Ever read that book about New Zealanders entitled "The Smiling Zombie"?
It was written before the 1980s economic 'reforms' but explained why the country allowed itself to be taken over by the wolves and thieves of global capitalism without a fight.
So do your comments.

Why the country allowed itself to be taken over by the wolves and thieves.

And what! people like the very wealthy Nandor, the obscenely wealthy Laila Harré and the filthy rich Niki Hagar are not wolves and thieves.- they fill your heads with fear and then profit from the proceeds.

Me thinks you like others to do your thinking for you, its white coat syndrome.- life lessons can not be learned from books. You are just looking out from your crystal palace at a society that you have no real association with-

The whole activist movement is a sham, and no more than a bunch of bored, well to do students pretending to be the Noir poor- what a joke.
If any of you had worked under the unions, and seen how they feathered their own nests at the expense of the workers that they were supposed to be supporting, how they kept wages down working conditions and how out of touch they were with the people that they were supposed to be supporting, then you would not be so keen to support them. And if you did I would really question your motives?

Is that right you nutcase Idiot

Anyone who knows Nicky Hagar can attest to the fact that he is VERY far from "filthy rich." Why do people write such nonsense?

What utter crap. If you had a brain cell it would be lonely

can you tell us who wrote the book 'The Smiling Zombie'? Sounds very insightful.

Urewera 16000 is more like it

Hard!

"the Tuhoe no longer exist, they people calling themselves Tuhoe are just brown skinned Scottish and English descendents partaking some bastardised Gaelic belief system"

This statement is just plain dumb as well as ungrammatical.

and Who the fuck you think you are asshole shit

*This statement is just plain dumb*

Why is it dumb, do you know nothing about Irish, Scots, welsh, Briton culture?
Do you know anything of Iona during the 1800's of Harris Island, of Limerick, Cork and the families/clans that came out here, all of them forced out Diaspora-?
There is a very distinct divergence of Maori culture around this period, what makes up the belief system, art etc changed from a pacific Island culture to a pacific Gaelic culture
The reason you don't see it is because you are a mongrel, a mongrel bastard’s offspring?

Kia Ora te Hikoi o te Iwi kia kaha Tino Rangatiratanga

"most of us sit back and watch"

First they came for the Tuhoe,
But I was not a 'brown-skinned English or Scottish descendant', so I did not speak out.
Then they came for those who were opposed to the fascist Bushite regime,
But I did not feel threatened, so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the angry young men and women,
But I was a white conformist racist,
So I did not speak out.
Then they came for me ...

*First they came for the Tuhoe,
But I was not a 'brown-skinned English or Scottish descendant', so I did not speak out.
Then they came for those who were opposed to the fascist Bushite regime,
But I did not feel threatened, so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the angry young men and women,
But I was a white conformist racist,
So I did not speak out.
Then they came for me ... *

The have never came for Tuhoe, the Tuhoe are loved-they are us.

You were not whole soul’d, so you watched not understanding.

They invited those who apposed them into government, changed the laws so they could participate in the great debate- they gave nothing but only took; they had become what they despised.

They laughed at the angry old men and the silly idealist, who wished they could be anything else but what they were- ghosts of a culture they have lost touch with.

They came for you, because you wore your underpants outside your trousers and were trying to jump off of buildings-.

I spoke out, tried to tell them what the birds were saying, no one would listen -they were too busy listening to themselves.

“The History Angel”
“She said what his story.
And he said, history is a pile of debris.
There’s an Angle, wants to go back and repair things, to fix the things that have been broken..
But there is a storm blowing forms a pattern, keeps blowing the angel backwards- into the future.
And this storm, this storm, this storm is called progress.

When you get down there Tell that Clark & Her poodles that they are on my Whenua and i will be revising their Lease,they might have to move out on the the water.

Dear John, how disappointed you must be feeling this morning.

Just four days ago you were looking forward to at least a year of relentless agit-prop on behalf of the "Urewera 17". A whole 12 months of chanting: "2-4-6-8 we don't want your police state!" Not to mention: "Helen Clark Terrorist!"

Oh yes, I saw you there last weekend, John, outside the Labour Party conference. You were pacing backwards and forwards behind a wall of howling protesters, and I couldn't help noticing how little effort you made to protect the hundreds of decent, working-class Labour Party delegates forced to run the gauntlet of your comrades' hysterical abuse.

Your dislike of the Labour Party is, of course, well known on the Left, and more than one person at the conference commented on how pleased you undoubtedly were that the so-called "terror trial" would be making headlines right through an election year.

But then the solicitor-general spoke and... oh dear, oh dear, oh dear! Those wicked minions of the social-fascist regime spoilt all your fun. That all-powerful police state you've been frothing at the mouth about for the past month not to mention its fearsome "Ninja Army" had actually declined Police Commissioner Howard Broad's request to lay charges against your friends under the Terrorism Suppression Act.

And with the solicitor-general's decision, the whole nightmarish scenario you've promoted: of a Terrorism Suppression Act deliberately crafted to ensnare not the Osama bin Ladens but the Tame Itis of this world; of a mendacious Labour government actively colluding with the police and the SIS to suppress political dissent; of an unelected legal bureaucrat mechanically doing the state's bidding; all of it simply melted into air like the far-left fever-dream it always was.

So, you must be feeling disappointed, but also, I suspect, just a little bit relieved. Because I can't really believe that you were looking forward to the evidence, painstakingly gathered by the police over the past 15 months, being presented in open court. All those intercepted conversations and text messages: all that talk about armed struggle and the revolution; all those plans, when disinfected by the sunlight of full public disclosure, they wouldn't have cast your friends in a particularly favourable light would they?

Am I wrong, John? Would you be happy for everything the police have gathered to be laid before the public? After all, I recall you saying, somewhere, that in all the recorded conversations of these gentle environmentalists, sincere pacifists and non-violent activists, there was: "Nothing that would not be heard at any gun club in New Zealand on a Saturday afternoon." (I recall a time when the conversations of the Left aspired to a higher standard but that's another story.) The police evidence, you told Radio New Zealand on Friday morning, was "laughable".

Well, I always enjoy a good laugh, John. So I'll look forward to you adding your voice to Green MP Keith Locke's call for a full public inquiry into the origins, execution and implications of "Operation Eight". An inquiry before which the police will be able to set forth all the evidence upon which they sought to prosecute your friends as terrorists.

I shall also take a keen interest, John, in the submissions you make to the new, improved anti-terrorist legislation when it emerges from the Law Commission.

Because in the course of the past month, John, I have heard you make many accusations, seen you point many fingers and hurl many fistfuls of abuse. But I have not heard one word from you about the right of a democratic society, such as ours, to be protected from people who think it's OK to run around the bush with semi-automatics and Molotov cocktails. People who think it's OK to train young Maori men to be bodyguards for the Americans in Baghdad. People who think it's OK to reach a level of preparation for organised political violence so alarming that New Zealand's most liberal police commissioner, ever, felt he had no choice but to launch "Operation Eight".

Because it's NOT OK, John. Political violence in a functioning democracy is NEVER OK.

And I want to hear you say it.

"functioning democracy"

Yeah, sure it is buddy,
We are heading down the same path as American politics. Two parties. Both doing exactly the same things. Basically anything that benefits the elite classes that they represent so well. Making the masses think they have a choice by differentaiting themselves on minor issues, which is what the elections are played out on.

We could learn alot from what is happening in Venezuela and other similar political situations. The masses voted in a true leader, and that true leader is in the process of breaking down the opression that capitalism and the elite class has caused in his country.

When you go out to vote next year. Dont vote National or Labour (two party politics is a sham). Vote for a party with a socialist agenda. We are the Majority being ruled by the minority and there is no reason that this has to continue. Change can happen by non violent means.

Talk to your Family and friends about doing the same.

We all deserve personal freedom from the shakles of capitalism. It is time to stand up and say enough.

Dear Chris, how smug and safe you must be feeling this afternoon knowing that the fascist police state called New Zealand carries on unhindered.

Chris Trotter you are a FASCIST piece of right-wing filth directly reflecting the apathetic consumer society through which you have been molded.

It is indeed reflective of the society we live in that you are deemed by many to be on the political "left".

Maybe you and your $100,000s are happy living in this unequal society but I assure you - most of us are NOT.

You ignorant person; there is "political violence" precisely because we DO NOT live in a democracy.

I call you ignorant because you obviously do not understand the definition of democracy. Democracy means a society wherein the means of production are controlled by EVERYONE and not simply you and a few thousand other ('left-wing') capitalists.

So, keep writing your "left-wing" articles Chris and keep up the pretence of "criticising" society. Just know this - there are still some of us who see through yours, the governments', and the fascist police state's bullshit that you so fervently defend.

The amount of anger the posters of this site have is disturbing and seems almost to be a pathological sickness. The only justifications that you appear to give seem to come out of some revolutionary manual or speech - let's all smash the state, put the boot in the the pigs and the owners of capital. One could be critical of this ideology but really why bother; it has been soundly rejected and marginalized by mainstream society so it poses no danger of ever being implemented.

Trawling through these posts has given an insight into the psychological makeup of the activist community. The theme that loom into the foreground have been the hatred and urge for destruction of the current socio-political system on the pretext of social justice and political and individual freedom. This of course entirely ignores the fact the we are living in one of the richest and freest societies on earth which most of the world's population would kill to be a member of.

No, it isn't a sense of social justice or remedying Maori rights which drives people in the activist community. There are far better ways to solve these problems such as becoming a teacher, starting a business and helping to employ others or lobbying government for change. The motivating force that makes them angry with the system is that it refuses to recognize and adequately renumerate whatever talents activist members have.
Instead of financial success and recognition they are forced to eak out a living on the margins of society in menial work which they consider far below what they are capable of but try to justify such degradation to themselves by claiming it brings them closer to the workers they are trying to emancipate. This is not to say that they are not intelligent, far from it in fact. But this is their curse as the average member of the working class is content with their lot in life - with family, their mates and the occasional pissup. To the members of the activist community, by virtue of their intelligence, this kind of existence is tortuous one.

So instead they want to take down the system which has failed to recognize their talents and give them what is due. Instead of creation and nuture their goal is the destruction of the system and society that rejects them.

"So instead they want to take down the system which has failed to recognize their talents and give them what is due. Instead of creation and nuture their goal is the destruction of the system and society that rejects them."

I am convinced there is some truth to your article and that some activists concentrate their efforts on destruction rather than solution. I am also convinced by your comment that the 'system' they attempt to destroy does not recognise their talents.

However when you suggest that their "curse" resides in the contentment of "the average member of the working class... with their lot in life - with family, their mates and the occasional pissup", I suggest you could not be more incorrect.

It does not take much to see that workers throughout NZ and beyond are not content with the "lot in life" prescribed to them through capitalist laws and institutions.

This is the lie that is perpetually fed to millions - that this is their "lot in life" - that a quarter acre and 2.3 children is the be all and end all, the 'kiwi dream'.

Revolutionary change "poses no real danger" only when people believe the lies that are continually fed to them through the government, mainstream media and other capitalist institutions. When they allow these perceptions to generate a culture of apathy is when capitalism and the intrinsic inequality it generates can grow and become more entrenched.

Destruction should not be the foremost agenda of revolutionaries. Rather it must be the regeneration of a society that is based on properly democratic principles. To do this however, all capitalist institutions along with the production relations these give rise to must be dismantled and reformed so that we may live in a democratic (i.e. equal) society.

Political "equality" is a farce and simply enables politicians and "left-wing" analysts to misleadingly use the term 'democracy', thus covering for the huge and growing levels of economic (that is real) inequality that permeate society.

The "political violence" that Chris Trotter sees no need for results directly from real inequality. If equality was a matter of signing a treaty or passing some legislation there would be no problem. But real inequality is of course not contingent upon this but upon the accumulation of economic wealth that, while enabling some to live in luxury; at the same time determines the real poverty of the majority.

Therefore "we are living in one of the richest and freest societies on earth" (i.e. NZ) to the ultimate detriment of billions of others throughout the world. The nature of capitalism determines however that such "freedom" and wealth cannot last forever but is contingent upon growing levels of global inequality and the continuous extraction of surplus value.

If we can see the real reasons for such "freedom" and wealth it logically follows that we will not want to defend capitalism because it must eventually erode. When we understand this, real freedom, universal wealth, and real (i.e. economic)equality become a matter not of destroying something or someone but of systematically dismantling the relations that have perpetuated inequality in order to begin building an equal, fair, and caring society.

If I was a BA graduate laboring away in some minimum wage or admin job which I felt was far beneath my talents there is no doubt that I would feel the same way as many activists feel. There is something to be said for being part of an organization or ideological movement that helps distract oneself from the banalities of modern life and work. Afterall who wants to deal with an overdue powerbill or having to face up to getting paid $10 an hour when you can help overthrow the state and its capitalist lackeys. If I were in your position then I maybe would do the same.

I put this question to you: If you're actually so sure that 'all capitalist institutions along with the production relations these give rise to must be dismantled and reformed' is the way to go then why not contest it at the ballot boxes like every other political party which believes in the democratic process.

Unlike many who post here I don't have the conceit and arrogance to believe I have the right to impose my vision of what society should be like on others unless I have their consent.

I challenge you to do the same.

If you were a BA graduate at least you would be able to write "if I were a BA graduate" rather than "if I was..". There are some benefits in being an educated activist.

I think "if I was..." is technically correct. English has some odd rules surrounding infinitives.

Too true, I stand corrected on my english. Unfortunately the monetary benefits of taking a law degree outweighed majoring in english lit.

Hope you all have fun and frolics overthrowing the state.