In response to the anonymous commenters above, no of course as you well know I don't oppose national liberation struggles in the Pacific. Nor do I oppose Maori demands for autonomy *where this is actually a demand with mass support from Maori themselves*.

I merely pointed out that trying to construct a whole lot of independent tribal "nations" in NZ would be very difficult without the prerequisite of a racially/tribally homogenous territory which few iwi (*apart from Tuhoe*) possess.

As such although socialists certainly shouldn't seek to deny Maori their right to self-determination and to self-government *if that is what they actually want*, it does not follow at all that we should argue in favour of their exercising this right.

In the same way socialists, despite recognising the right of oppressed nationalities to self-determination, do not generally argue in favour of national independence for every oppressed minority group in the Balkans, on the grounds that it will (and in many cases already has) led to tremendous economic and social dislocation and the weakening of class solidarity across ethnic and racial lines.

Finally, as for WP allegedly calling Labour's nationalisation of the foreshore "progressive" this is nonsense. All we pointed out was that state ownership was *preferable* to private iwi ownership, even though state ownership under capitalism is hardly synonomous with workers' control.

cheers,

Tim