Yey! STRIKE!!! Stay till they pay! Meatworkers have a huge rate of injury and those lines need to be slowed down, not just for the workers but for the animals welfare too. If you don't get a pay rise, take direct action and smash up the machines or switch off the freezers.

More Power to the workers who are striking.
I hope that if Taylor Preston does not come to the table with a offer that is acceptable to the workers, that the CTU fully get in behind the workers and set up a strike fund and actively support them untill they can force the Taylor Preston management back to the table.

Today i saw a guy(one of the workers) i meet at the picket yesterday and he said that at a meeting in j vile the workers accepted resolutin 2 which is that workers will only work a set 40hour week. And any overtime will be paid time and a half. Whisch means for some of them their pay will only be near industry standard when they are working overtime.
Shit i guesse for them its a start. I hope they dont just leave it there.
The seafareers union gave them $1000. Big ups to the seafarers one of the friendliest unions. Not to deminish this act of genorosity but to put it into perpective seeing as there where about 300 strikers it only amounts to about $3.30each.Maybe the CTU Could come in with some cash these workers lost a lot.
xxx mark r

Vegan Communist??

How could anyone that claims to be vegan support workers that cause terror too and mutilate animals.

Fuck meat workers rights, what about the animals rights!

Any vegan that supports meat workers getting paid more to do their dirty work need to get serious help.

How bout instead encouraging these workers to get humane jobs. Without workers the slaughterhouses couldn't operate. Vegans should be looking at how to close these places of hell down not improve the conditions of those that murder hundreds of thousands sentient creatures every damn year!

Go the workers
Unionised meat for the starving masses

"How could anyone that claims to be vegan support workers that cause terror too and mutilate animals."

Because we think further than our own plate! You make me sick saying crap like that. I suggest you go out to Ngauranga Gorge and tell these people working on minimum wage that you don't care that they have to bring up their kids in poverty.

There is no such thing as 'humane jobs' in this capitalist world! Workers are always creating wealth for someone else - doesn't matter if that's in your local vegan restaurant, flipping burgers at McDonald's or working at the freezing works. We have to fight capitalism and support workers in their struggle. And yes, we can promote ideas of veganism at the same time. But stop blaming the most marginalised people in society for fighting the capitalist bastards.

For a world free of oppression!

Hey positively vegan. You are barking up the wrong tree. and barking mad if you can't feel compassion for people on the poverty line in aotearoa.
Do you have any idea what poverty is like for a family liveing in Jonsonvile or porirua.
I am a vegan. I whent to the picket and talked to the meet workers i told them i was a vegetarian.
Most of n.z eats meat.Telling people that they are murderers and that they shyould not have rights is not going to help the animals.Talking to meat eaters and meat workers about compassion and alternitive options might.
Please read anarcha lilliths comment under the "meat sucks but not as much as taylors", post. She has a great annalasys.

I don't think people who don't do crap for animals should be putting vegans down for what they belive politically.

Vegans are already a marginalized group in this fucked society, mark and anarcha lilith seem intent on vegan bashing. Other vegetarians shouldn't be putting them down for critizing meat workers, who derserve to be put through the works themselves for what they do and PROFIT from.

I've been in prestons 'meat works' and these people are scum, I don't kid myself about that. I want to see them strike because of the economic pressure. If they wanted to, apple picking is a viable alternative to working in the meat industry that takes less skill.

And meat collectivly does suck more than taylors individually. To call youre article that mark is to set up a false dichotomy between workers rights and animal rights, so don't act like you didn't have an AR backlash coming.

Yeah right o. So 'vegan' makes one vaguely intelligent point about a false dicotme between meat sucking and taylors beeing worse. I agree neither is worse they are both abhorent to me. It was just an email title that i sent to a friend not the actual intended tittle. Bllahh blaah
do you realise your doing as much if not more to polarie issues than false dichotomies.
Have you forgoten that me and anarcha lillith are both vegans. Why the fuck would we vegan bash. I love vegans.
Im Sorry if i hurt your fealings but your argument is really lame and you are still missing the point that both the animals and the workers are beeing exploited. I am all for shutting the whole meat industy down and the entire animal exploitation industry and the whole explotation industry as well basicaly lets get rid of capitalism. In order to do this we need to get rid of the ruleing class. I am not opposed to violence to do this but i dont want to go round killing everyone who is mean to animals & queers who is rasist sexist agist gender oprresive... or there would not be many of us left and it would be a horrible blood bath.Lets start by talking to meat workers rather that simplty putting them down.
Yeah i agree with spirit of kronstat you ought to watch what you say mind you you are useing an alias.
So have you really been into taylors at Nauranga?

could the anonymous 'vegan' stop pretending they speak for all animal rights activists.
Instead of calling for the violent deaths of wage slaves who happen to work in the animal abuse industry, how about you tell us what practical things you are doing to stop slaughterhouse cruelty and/or exploitation of workers.
If you think jumping into a discussion about a strike at a meatworkds and shouting about how all the workers deserve to die is going to convince anyone to think positively about animal rights you are seriously deluded.

Mr G
(A vegan animal rights activist who thinks all slaughterhouses should be closed down tomorrow just in case you were wondering)

First of all myself and "vegan" are not the same person. I don't think my message was violent in any way. I am so god damn sick of people who claim to be vegan say things like "those lines need to be slowed down, not just for the workers but for the animals welfare too." There is NO animal WELFARE inside SLAUGHTERHOUSES! Those two words do not go together at all.

"wage slaves who happen to work in the animal abuse industry"

HAPPEN to work? They choose to work in the slaughter house there ARE other places they can work. Everyone has the choice of where they work. I don't work in a slaughter house. I don't get paid a particulary great wage either but my employment does not involve harming animals.

"how about you tell us what practical things you are doing to stop slaughterhouse cruelty and/or exploitation of workers."

How about you tell us what you do!!

My comments weren't made with the intent to convince anyone to think positively about animal rights. My comments were made to hopefully make Vegans think about their actions and what they are saying.

I think vegan's image says it all.


-----------------------------------------

Editorial note: This comment has been modified to remove a name. Only the name has been removed nothing else. Please do not use (what you assume are) peoples real names when they have been using pen names / pseudonyms.

apple picking in Ngauranga Gorge? get real!

Vegan wrote....Other vegetarians shouldn't be putting them down for critizing meat workers, who derserve to be put through the works themselves for what they do and PROFIT from.

***In response to the idiot who wrote this, This is one of the most offensive comments that i have read on Indymedia.
And by the way Vegan, coming as i do from a family who worked in the meatworks. all you do is create divisions between Vegans and Workers with your level of bullshit rhetoric.

Vegan wrote....I've been in prestons 'meat works' and these people are scum, I don't kid myself about that.

***I Suggest you might be more carefull about who you label as scum!

Okay, maybe I don't actually want to see anyone put through the meat works, but I'd prefer the animal abusers to be hurt rather than peaceful animals like cows to be murdered.

Sorry I didn't make it clear before, but no I speak only for myself. Not for all the Animal Rights activists. whats your obession with me being anonymous? Also its none of your god damn business what I do, and frankly I don't care about what you do either. However what I make my business is what arseholes like taylor prestons do to animals.

OK, the main reason I have been annoyed by some of the comments here is that when ever there is a dispute between the bosses of a meat company and the workers, some people always direct their abuse and anger towards the workers, and thats just dumb. Yes they are directly responsible for the killing of animals and they are guilty. but the anonymous bosses who have far more decisionmaking power and make huge profits are far more guilty, and they never seem to attract the same amount of anger that is directed towards the workers.

Why has no one posted up pictures of the Meatworks boss with "I hope the scumbag dies" comments under it? Is it because he is a nice looking guy in a suit that never ever has to get blood on his hands? That makes him far worse in my opinion.

Maybe its because a few vegans and vegetarians have posted here saying they support the meatworkers. I dont support them because I dont want anyone to work in a slaughterhouse. There are some industries that are so unethical and cruel that they have to be shut down. But I would rahter direct my anger at the people in that industry who profit from it and who make the decisions, than at the vast majority of people who just work there cos they need a job and certainly arent benefiting from the cruelty.

So slight change in thinking today after some interesting coversation. I stood on the picket line and watched the workers eat ham sandwhiches, without any strongn repulsion. I regreeted they where eating meet and thougt it was realy sad but the emotionds stoped there.
However i have seen horific animal cruelty up close and it makes my blood boil and my stomach turn. This cruelty has got to stop now.
For me this is a really interesting topic and i enjoy the strong differences in opinion. What intrests me is where people draw the line ;Would you join a police strike in solidarity? How does one communicate with non activist radicals? When is the time for talk over?
I hope i havent mixed vegan and positively vegan up? I hope im not beeing confued with anyone either.
Vegans last post was good. Positivly vegan you would be shoveing shit up hill to find 400 jobs in j vill or somewhere near it. I agree workers should get new jobs so i guess the question is where could you find 400 ethical (?) jobs in wellington?

Hey meat worker, people are straving because you produce meat. That land used to raise cattle would be 10 times more productive producing vegetable protien. The meat industry is here for profit, nothing else.

Also I can't find a photo of Andrew Taylor. But heres a list of Taylor Preston scumfucks: (directors)

John Benton (Chairman)
Andrew Taylor (Managing Director)
Christopher Grace (Livestock Director)
Rod Preston
Scot Preston

man these fools are enough to put me off even eating any vegetables.

Victory to the workers and as some guy put before, unionised meat for the starving masses!

'I stood on the picket line and watched the workers eat ham sandwhiches, without any strong repulsion'

Gee, that was big of you. What's the next step in your therapy?

So correct me - workers seemingly being treated unfairly by the meatworks management go on strike for more money and a bunch of mental cripples who eat seaweed and mung beans turns the whole discussion around and starts bitching about meat eaters. The discussion is about fair pay for fair work, not whether a t-bone steak is evil (medium rare, with chips it's actually divine). One of you nongs even asked "How does one communicate with non activist radicals?" Scoff some B multi vitamins, take a deep breath, stop talking shit and just speak plain English to them. They are not from mars, they're people. You have lost touch and become insular.

Mental cripples?

Well if Vegetarians are mental cripples then meat eaters are really retarded, heres a list of a few of these "Mental cripples"..

Albert Einstien, Leonardo Da Vinci, Franz Kafka, Spike Milligan, Plato, Jeremy Rifkin, George Bernard Shaw, Leo Nikolayevich Tolstoy, Henry David Thoreau, Dalai Lama, Thomas Alva Edison, Dr Albert Schweitzer, Nikola Tesla... the list goes on.

Those who can't see that animals suffer and deserve our respect not abuse are the real mental crippels. That is because they obviously have no capacity for empathy.

Who might have been a vegan isn't the point. You ommitted Hitler, by the way. The point is surely that low-paid workers are trying to win a pay rise. Lifestyles such a vegan's are irrelevant to the pay dispute (and life in general).

I think a strike is a political thing and so is what you choose to eat. I think a strike at a meatworks is a good opportunity to discuss veganism and animal exploitation. DISCUSS mind you. violence cannot solve violence. together with education and common action we all evolve.

"You ommitted Hitler, by the way."

actually hitler was not a vegetarian, a common misconception, since he was at various points on health regimes where he was not suppoused to eat meat:

"While it is true that Hitler's doctors put him on a vegetarian diet to cure him of flatulence and a chronic stomach disorder, his biographers such as Albert Speer, Robert Payne, John Toland, and others, have attested to his liking for ham sausages and other cured meats. Even Spencer says that Hitler was a vegetarian from only 1931 on: "It would be true to say that up to 1931, he preferred a vegetarian diet, but on some occasions would deviate from it." He committed suicide in the bunker when he was 56 in 1945; that would have given him 14 years as a vegetarian, but we have the testimony to the contrary of the woman chef who was his personal cook in Hamburg during the late 1930s - Dione Lucas. In her "Gourmet Cooking School Cookbook," she records that his favorite dish - the one that he customarily requested - was stuffed squab (pigeon). "I do not mean to spoil your appetite for stuffed squab, but you might be interested to know that it was a great favorite with Mr. Hitler, who dined in the hotel often."

from: www.veg.ca/newsletr/mayjun96/hitler.html

also according to the website the Nazis banned vegetarian organizations in Germany and the lands they invaded and occupied

God I'm bored. This was supposed to about the meatworkers' strike and now we're pandering to train spotters and bloody vegans. I'm off to watch Morris dancing practice where at least the lunatics recognise themselves, with good humour, as such, and don't try to form a collective to run the bloody asylum.

Hmmm... for a while I was finding this interesting, now it seems to have degenerated to a level below even that of the usual internet debate. Shouting "mental cripples" at each other doesn't do anything for either side. Thanks to Mark R and Smush and a couple of others for their comments.

As for the mudthrowers - why not fuck off elsewhere and leave this site alone. Surely somebody has started a www.pointlessabuse.org somewhere?

There are real issues here and it would be nice if people posting were those who actually considered them worth addressing. If you want a scrap what's wrong with the pub on a Saturday night?

i really thought that link was gonna work...>sigh<

Works for me....

Com'on guys lets have some CLASS UNITY here!

Capatalism makes people do allsorts of terrible things. Just read 'IBM and the Holocaust'! It takes many different sorts of technocrat or prole to be ground up and lubricate the gears of capatalism.

"How could anyone that claims to be vegan support workers that cause terror too and mutilate animals."

I'm sorry you can't see that its the same system that kills them and us. McD's workers walking out deserve our support. Or are you such a vegan fundimentalist that you couldn't careless when KFC's are burnt to death during the burning of a KFC by Pakistani rioters?

"Any vegan that supports meat workers getting paid more to do their dirty work need to get serious help"

You're right, I do need help, most union meetings selling little red books and newspapers.

I can understand (if not condone) abuse thrown at meat eaters by vegans (and vice versa), but why are vegans so busy abusing each other? Anyone working for animal rights in a basically capitalistic and exploitative society has a moral dilemma.

Do we try to make small and cumulative improvements, for example increasing workers' salaries so that animal welfare can be improved or do we take a non-compromise stance and insist on nothing more than complete elimination of slaughterhouses (a less euphemistic term than "freezing works" by the way), as well as all animal farming, laboratory experiments, zoos, circuses, horse and greyhound racing, hunting etc., etc.

Both strategies have their strong and weak points, and those advocateing either of those strategies are dedicated people working for the betterment of animals. So by all means lets have some rational debate on which strategy or combination of strategy may work in each given situation, but please let's stop abusing people who are on the same side.

How can anyone support filthy fucking mass murderers wanting more money for their revolting crimes. Exactly the same as supporting the gas chamber workers of ww2. Just cos they're working class??? So are the scum who work in the bomb making factories-shall we give those lovely people more too?

The gas chamber workers in WW2 is actually a good analogy. Many of them were prisoners themselves who were given certain priviledges (ie spared form certain death - this was a "priviledge" in the context of a concentration camp) if they helped the Nazis. Of course they were wrong to do so. Of course if they had more courage they would have refused. But courage is a rarity - most of us are not very brave, and I would not like to judge the concentration camp helpers or the workers and Taylor Preston until I have been in their situation.

The Taylor Preston workers have been written off as "scum". But who are the worst scum, those who work at the slaughterhouses or those who knowingly buy their products? At least, unlike many meat eaters, the workers have sufficient courage of their convictions to actually take a part in the distasteful work that our society's addiction to meat demands. I always tell meat eaters that if they must eat meat, then at least take part in the killing process so they know what it is really like.

Slaughterhouses operate because they make MONEY. The more that low-level employees make, the less profit that leaves for those who started/run slughterhouses. So even if you don't a shit about the workers/death camp operators/etc (I'm not saying you should -- it's irrelevant for the point I'm making), it's probably better that they get extra money (that they're going to spend on additional harmful shit, to be sure) than the owners/investors. The smaller the profit margin of the meat industry, the weaker it becomes/less political clout it has/less institutional incentive to murder more innocent animals etc. I'm not saying it's necessarily worth animal activists' time to go support the strikers, just that all told, it's better the money be kept away from the owners/investors, even if it means putting it into the hands of people perhaps almost as scummy (if not nearly as powerful or in a position to do as great of harm).

Its comments from the vegoes/vegans on this particular post that do nothing to support the cause of vegetarianism/veganism

"it's probably better that they get extra money (that they're going to spend on additional harmful shit, to be sure) than the owners/investors. The smaller the profit margin of the meat industry, the weaker it becomes ......."

Giving the workers more money is in reality not going to make that bigger difference to the owners/investers. It's not going to have an effect really on the running costs of the slaughterhouses and diffinatley is not going to improve the suffering and deaths of the animals that are killed or close the place down.

Most of us are against the way people are taken advantage of by their employers, but I stop when those seeking more money are involved in unnessary violence towards animals.

I still find it hard to understand why individuals who are against harming animals, still support and/or actively campaign for those who are harm animals to get more money for doing so.

As I said in an earlier post the reason I posted my comments here in the first place was to get vegans who speak out in support of wage increases for animal abusers to stop and think about it.

I'm not saying that vegans should not help these people - but support and encourage them to find other jobs - not help put pressure on the slaughterhous bosses to pay more and so also support the continuation of a violent industry.

Some vegans and animal rights activists are just as bad as the capitalist fatcats at Taylor Preston meatworks. They are only out for the money, power, promotions and status for themselves like the owners of the above slaughter house.

Take the fiefdom SAFE for example. On their front page of their website www.safe.org.nz they promote their shop in K Road in Auckland and ask for five cents, that are about to be taken out of circulation, to be given to them with the gross comment:"SAFE wants 'em"! Also, you can check their financial reports at www.companies.govt.nz that they spent more on themselves in wages than on animal campaigns, in the register. And in the notes of the 2001 accounts it shows that SAFE made out loans to its management.

All of this is objective proof that SAFE are only spieces-ist, out to help themselves instead of the animals, like the owners of the freezing works. If not then why doesn't SAFE spend more money on animal campaigns than on wages? This would be the simple solution to the big problem it has!

SPEND MORE MONEY ON ANIMAL CAMPAIGNS TO SAVE ANIMALS FROM EXPLOITATION INSTEAD OF SPENDING IT ON PEOPLE IN THE FORM OF WAGES!

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