Horns were also used, and two New Zealand flags were burnt. Police arrested one of the burn-ees and another was arrested for not a lot, really.

It was pretty embarrassing for the police, and they were whispering to us to be quiet as they arrested the two, one of whom did not go very quietly.. woo! :) A few 30-40yo men came and helped tackle some of us and held one the people arrested to a fence while the police dragged at his feet. A good show of Nationalist zealotry!

The banner was huge, and most people will have read it. Finally, this year's ANZAC day in Wellington did not pass as if no one cared about the crimes of the New Zealand State/military.

How ignorant and misguided. You're essentially pissing on the graves of 30,000 New Zealanders. Fucktard.

.

.

Go the flagburners!!
Sorry I'm down south & I missed all this... Make'em squirm @ the cop shop, they'll never get a charge through.
xxx katie

I'm as anti-war as anyone, and had you been protesting down here in Dunedin I would have been out there with you. However, i'm absolutely disgusted that you would burn the flag on ANZAC day in the presence of so many former servicemen.
There's a time and a place folks.
In my opinion you've done the anti-war movement a disservice. How can we get the public's support if we do something like this?

Roly.

I'm all for a bit of flag burning every now and again but probably it was a bit tackless burning a flag on ANZAC Day at the Dawn Service. I agreed with holding demos on ANZAC Day but flag burnings are just going to make people think you're "anti-New Zealand" or something like that. Yes I know it's silly that some people think that setting fire to a meaningless piece of cloth is somehow an attack on them. However, we have to be aware there are many people, some of whom would quite possibly be on our side on many issues (or potentially could be), think like that and their emotions relating to the flag are even more intense on ANZAC Day (especially while attending ANZAC Services).

In summary flag burning on ANZAC Day is just going to piss people off rather than make them think about how dumb nationalism and militarism is.

I also fall into the "moderate" anti-war camp, probably part of the silent majority of NZers that would give credence and real success to a campaign to actually do something at a local level to stop our involvement in war, such as the nztroopsoutnow.org campaign, if our support could be secured.

However, after seeing the nasty and totally disgusting lack of respect shown for those that have been forced to go to war and given their lives in the process, I can quite categorically say that I will never support your campaign, and with stunts like that, nor will most other NZers.

You see most people understand that, whilst you have a right to protest and free speech, there are also responsibilities. Disrespecting fallen NZers and those that made it back alive in such a nasty way (blowing horns and burning the flag that represents what these people died for on the one day and at the one event the country pauses to remember them) will guarantee that the anti-war movement in NZ will always be a fringe movement of extremists with no credibility.

This action has lost the anti-war movement much credibility, and has doomed this campaign before it even started.

It's sad that, as is so often the case, the extremists ruin it for everyone.

Nobody was forced to go to war; conscientious objection was an option. It wasn't made a very attractive option, and I don't condemn those who failed to take it, but choosing to fight in an unjust war doesn't earn my respect.

An unjust war?!?

Exactly how was World War 1 (or WW2) an "unjust war"?

A case could be made for WW2, but what was just about WW1? What was the reason for all the killing and destruction? It was nothing but a pathetic squabble between European rulers which helped set the stage for WW2.

Sitting by and doing nothing letting Hitler and the japanese have there way is unjust.

My grandfather and many others risked there lives and gave there lives and because of that scum like you have the right to protest.

Conscientious objecters were nothing more than cowards and saying they objected to war was just an easy way to cover for it.

You need to know your history. Who brought the Japanese into WW2 and when was NZ attacked. Who chose to allow Hilter to progress through Europe annexing countries before they decided to start a war.

It was either go to war or have the whole world cower at the feet of the Nazi and Japanese.
Conscientious objectors were nothing more than cowards and used the excuse there they objected to war to cover it up.

If you did not go to war you were put in goal and got ot dig ditches and sow mail bags. What a wonderful choice.

the charge they will put though is treason

.

I chose not to go to this demo, mostly, to be honest, because I have to get up early every other morning for work in a factory and being tired from various activities, wanted the rare chance to sleep in. I was also not sure if disruption of the ceremony was the most productive tactic. To be honest, I felt quite torn about whether I should go down or not.
However, I completely respect the choice of those who went to demonstrate. Whatever differences we have about tactics and details, I know they are sincerely anti corporate and anti war.
The politicians and editors and other capitalists who manipulate publilic opinion are not sincere. They are playing on peoples feelings for their own interests. They don't give two shits about the fallen; they only leech off their long forgotten agony. The protesters are actualy the ones according the dead proper respect.
The flag that was burnt today is a flag of imperialism.
The anti war movement can only suceed when it becomes a mass movement again and cannot be rebuilt just by a few small occasional protest actions. But those small actions are a part of that process and should be supported.

Don Franks

Totally not acceptable behaviour. To try and upstage true heros on their day by burning a flag is a slap in the face to great individuals who represented NZ doing one of the most bravest duties. ANZAC day is about respecting those who put themselves through hell to make the world a better place. RESPECT THESE HEROS, BURNING THE NZ FLAG ON THEIR DAY IS DISRESPECT!!!

this is a fantastic protest! i support this kind of action all the way. great banners, great action, great statement!

and yes, i am anti-New Zealand. i'm against this state that brings misery to the people living in countries they invade and/or help occupy: Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Tonga, Timor Leste and ..... Aotearoa. The flag is a symbol of a succession of governments who are siding with the rich (governments always do that). Don't hide behind the nationalist idea - what have u got in common with Helen Clark, Phil Goff or Theresa Gattung? You were born in the same island. What have u got in common with an ordinary person in Tonga, Vietnam, the Solomons etc.? You are both poor and powerless. That's the system for you. Stop getting together behind a flag and support, fight and glorify the rich people's wars and fight your own war with all oppressed people of this planet for liberation!

burn the flag. burn the city. burn the office and the factory. burn shops and cars. burn the bosses office. burn the police stations. burn the schools. burn what hurts others. support what helps others. down with hierarchy, privilege, wealth and power and poverty and misery. up with equality, freedom, justice, and hope for a new world for everyone and their children to live without needless pain and suffering and to live with true peace and happiness.

Tim Blackheart

you're anti-New Zealand?

Then pack your bags and get the &*() out

get the fuck out of our country then!

then get the fuck out of our country, you are not welcome here

james

then get the fuck out of our country, you are not welcome here

james

I find all this anzac day protesting offensive. Having an American spokesperson for the event is totally wrong. Peace Action my ass.

What do you know about Anzac Day Valerie? How many of your forebears fought or fell?

Many people would see this as an insult to our grandfathers and great grandfathers.

What an absolute disgrace.

Whats with wanting our soldiers out of the Solomons and Timor??? Peace action Wellington are all for anarchy and terror!!. Get a grip!!

Those who burned the flag at anzac commemorations this morning disgust me. These old blokes were sent away to fight far-right fascist expansionism, and for your right to free speech. I totally support flag burning, but to use the free speech they fought for to bring them to tears (which is what you did) made me embarrassed to have been associated with the anti-war movement.

Those who burned the flag at anzac commemorations this morning disgust me. These old blokes were sent away to fight far-right fascist expansionism, and for your right to free speech. I totally support flag burning, but to use the free speech they fought for to bring them to tears (which is what you did) made me embarrassed to have been associated with the anti-war movement.

Those who burned the flag at anzac commemorations this morning disgust me. These old blokes were sent away to fight far-right fascist expansionism, and for your right to free speech. I totally support flag burning, but to use the free speech they fought for to bring them to tears (which is what you did) made me embarrassed to have been associated with the anti-war movement.

Those who burned the flag at anzac commemorations this morning disgust me. These old blokes were sent away to fight far-right fascist expansionism, and for your right to free speech. I totally support flag burning, but to use the free speech they fought for to bring them to tears (which is what you did) made me embarrassed to have been associated with the anti-war movement.

Well after the pathetic display at the Wellington dawn service I sure as hell won't be supporting anything conducted by 'Peace Action Wellington'. If you were against the church would you protest and actively disrupt their services for major events such as Easter and Christmas?

I had no problem with your presence at the service until you decided to be complete pricks and disrupt what is a service to REMEMBER and COMMEMORATE the veterans both alive and dead. Its not a goddamn glorification or celebration, if you think that then I suggest you check into the local psych ward as you are clearly deluded.

This protest has probably done more to put people off your movement than anything else. Way to win support. Two thumbs up.

"Many people would see this as an insult to our grandfathers and great grandfathers."

My grandfather fought for a lie (his words).

That might be so, but I bet he'd be pretty unhappy about this sort of crap happening on the one day and event a year that is set aside for the country to pause and remember his friends that died for the same lie.

"Peace Action Wellington" should be ashamed of themselves.

"old blokes were sent away to fight far-right fascist expansionism, and for your right to free speech."

In the immortal words of Bill Hicks:

"No one – and I repeat, no one – has ever died for a flag. See, a flag … is just a piece of cloth. They may have died for freedom, which is also the freedom to burn the fucking flag, see. That's freedom."

Te Rangikaiwhiria Kemara

Kia Ora koutou katoa.

Yeah Bro Bill Hicks rules! And where was the flag made?? .....in Taiwan.

Honestly if had it been the burning of the Máori flag or the silver fern then i would have been upset. But the colonial flag is a brit relic from last centuary and perhaps burning it, is telling us it's time to change it.

Burning it on anzac day took some guts. It certainly gained world wide attention. I am writing thid from Belfast where burning flags is an annual event. But it is necessary to put a proper debate in place to end some of the myths about anzac day if only to put things in their right perspective.

So the protests are not popular? To all those anti-war people talking about mass movements and getting the public onside... well where are you all? What are you waiting for? Are you starting to believe the US, Australian and NZ 'peace' speak? Do you really thing we have a Ministry of Defence? Do you really think our troops are 'rebuilding' wartorn countries? Come on...

Sometimes you have to weigh up whether to go ahead and do a small covert protest that you could pull off and spark some controversial discussion in an otherwise numb population OR try to advertise and get days of arguments about flag burning and end up being stopped by the police before the protest can even happen anyway.

People should be organising themselves too.

And of course we know that there are a lot of people at ANZAC ceremonies who are against war. That is part of the reason we protest. For them. For the soldiers who died needlessly for our so-called 'freedom'.

I do not think securing trade deals with Britain brings me or any of us freedom. It ties us into environmentally disastrous dairy farming and the whimsy of global markets. That is what ANZAC was about as far as I understand.

PS. No-one was yelling abuse at war veterans. That is a complete lie.

PPS. And yeah I'm against New Zealand. I'm Maori for a start so that should help explain things - not that I'm anti-pakeha by the way, just anti-state. So burning the flag on one of the most patriotic days we have, makes perfect sense to me.

""ANZAC Day has ceased to be a day where we commit to 'never again', and has instead become nothing less than a celebration of the New Zealand military and the glorification of war," said Valerie Morse,"

How deluded can someone possibly be? NZ LOST. The battles were an example of military high-command incompetence, and the needless sacrifice of brave men.

The Peace Movement is a $%#$&^% disgrace.

www.geekzone.co.nz/inane/2750

The Governor General Anand Satyanand made this statement on ANZAC day,

"Let us make this day truly one of remembrance of the costs of war; and of gratitude and respect for peace."

When you take an objective look at what the protests were focussed on, it is not hard to see the heart of the protest is to highlight the attrocities committed in these wars, not just of the enemy, but of those committed by NZ troops, and the continuation of that war machine that was formed as ANZACs, to later become the now defunct ANZUS Alliance, however the former relationship is still used today to continue to cement US hegemony in the central Pacific, and in NZ and Australian controlled areas. To mainly maintain the areas the US took during its on expansion into the Pacific and shoring up its supply routes between Hawaii and the Filipines.

In terms of flags, burning flags, one does not go to war to fight for a flag, many of those soldiers were drafted, most learnt the hard way that you fight for the brother in the shit right next to you, not some piece of cloth. Perhaps this was a small part of the rationale as to why the Royal New Zealand Returned Services' Association did not openly back the current flag at its annual conference when a move was made by NZ Flag.com to have the flag changed.

Some of the responses generated by the actions of PAW as expressed here are nothing more than laughable.

for instance the old fascist rhetoric of 'like it or leave it' has reared its ugly head. does such an idiotic reply have to be addressed all over again? the idea that if you oppose the actions of the state then you should just leave is beyond a joke. if this were followed through then how would any positive change ever occur? as people who agitate for change are always fighting against the status quo and would, according to the logic of some, be compelled to leave.

in a similar vein james commented 'then get the fuck out of our country'. intersting...who are the 'our' that you refer to? perhaps white, european, maori, rich, poor, male, female.....? their is no 'our', only very diverse people, some sharing common concerns, others not that you seem all to keen to lump togehter and proclaim them kiwis. and in doing so paper over the real everyday concerns and needs that people have. and, remember to whisper this, to cover over the fact that a great majority of people here suffer due to being under the boot of other kiwis.

the inability of some to see the difference between country, state/nationalism and people would be comical if not for the subject matter. the tying up of country, people and state into one entity is what has allowed fascism to rear its ugly head time and time again and allowed governments to get away with the most horrendous crimes all in the interest of the public.

it really does seem that some of the posters cannot distinguish between criticism of the government/state and the people. how does protesting against the horrors of war that states pursue make you somehow unpatriotic and against certain people?

surely the best way to show support for people who died in wars is to fight to ensure that no more people have to be sent to wars? and, to fight against those who send people to wars; the state aided by the phoney nationalism that it stirs up.

it seems that some posters deem it unpatriotic to protest against the state. in reality what could be more patriotic than to protest against an institution that willingly send people to their slaughter, and, to slaughter other people. of course missing from this whole discussion is the fact that we don't mourn the dead of the 'enemy'.

the idea that the flag burners will somehow weaken the peace movement just doesn't stand up. why is it that such people always call for protesters to become more moderate, to appeal to the respectable, bourgeois way of doing things? i think that this is just basically a call for tactics to be watered down so that they become completely meaningless and can be easily ignored. what is instead proposed is for instance a peaceful A-B march, completely state controlled accompanied by the handing out of a few non offensive leaflets.

what causes change is people involved in acts of civil disobedience. of course the more people involved the better but the crucial thing is how challenging is the tactic to the government?

if only more people, in all countries, started to openly challenge the actions of the state, started to undermine and challenge the nationalistic fraud that they create and started to burn their flags then i reckon that we would be taking a massive step towards eradicating wars. if only those protesters in australia and nz against ww1 weren't crushed by the state at the time then maybe all the people who died in the war would have not been sacrificed.

surely the best way to remember those who died is to challenge the institution that sent them to their death and to ensure that more people don't end up the same. i always find it interesting how some folks get so worked up at something like the burning of a flag and the critique of the state yet never stop to wonder why veterans of wars and their family members, year after year, have to sit on the pavement selling poppies to raise funds. surely the anger directed at the flag burners would be better directed at the state that used and killed people for its own ends and now doesn't see fit to provide for them in later age...but i guess that such criticism is just not the patriotic thing to do?

Steve

very good post,steve,unfortunately the majority of ppl of are a pathetic,apathetic ,brainwashed lot,concerned ONLY with their immediate comfort and wellbeing

You're talking crap, Withers.

That was well written steve. After reading your well articulated argument i changed my view about burning the flag on anzac day. It should be made compulsory if only to call a halt to the jingoistic soundbites like "they shall not grow old as we grow old" "They died for freedom" My Great Grandfather was arrested,conscripted into the Maori pioneers and died in France in 1917. At 23 he didnt have the chance to grow old as they took away his freedom leaving me nana an orphan. War is horrible but its the glorified lies they tell you after you die that are the worst.

Don't worry about the flag waving superpatriots as their patriotism is fleeting.

One issue for me, Steve, is about a lack of respect. i.e., respect for those previous generations who sacrificed for their country, thinking they were doing the right thing.

Another issue for me is credibility, i.e, how peace action wellington now has none.

This was just another symbolic action with questionable strategic value. Nothing hard core about it. The only hard core is that lump in your heads where your brains used to be, before all the injustice you've been subjected to and that you've focused upon shrivelled them up.

If some of these people commenting on these discussions about ANZAC Day are truely anti-war why aren't they organising their own actions?

Rather than criticising Peace Action Wellington, why not do something yourself, if you think PAW's strategy is no good.

Your 'anti-war' protest was incredibly misguided.
As for 'anti-state'?? how many of you are on benefits, how many of your kids go to school?
Down with wealth? who do you think is funding your benefits, hospitals, schools? how about taking some personal responsibility to look after yourselves and your families!
Everyone has an option to improve their lives, why don't you get a grip instead of riding on the backs of the 'rich' people you're bitching about!
To get down to it, if you don't like it fuck off somewhere else. Somewhere where there are no benefits, you can live without a health system or education (a lack of education won't make a difference anyway). To protest in this manner on Anzac Day is beyond stupid.

Hey there,

...where to start with such a misguided rant...why do you think that over many years the state has been pressured to do the things that you say such as supply benefits, hospitals, schools?

could it be that the economic system that we live in benefits the few at the expense of the many? an economic system that the state safeguards and fully supports. hence an attack upon the state can be seen as an attack upon an institution that safeguards economic inequality and leads, as you point out, to a dependence by some on benefits etc. any simple analysis of neo-liberalism will reveal this to you. and...now this may come as a bit of a shock to you...states can use their concentrated powers for acts that hurt people...as in this case fighting wars and sending people off to be slaughtered.

of course everyone has an option to improve their lives...however that option is far easier for some than others. some people are given numerous helping hands all throughout their life whilst others are continually trampled upon.

as for 'riding on the backs of the rich'. well, how do you suppose the rich got rich? could it be by riding on the back of those not so well off as they are. again, basic economic theory and practice...look it up!

'if you dont like it fuck off somewhere else'...i thought that this fascist response had been dealt with in an earlier post...guess i was wrong. what a dumb thing to say. if you dont like something you stand and fight to a better society. this is how positive change comes about. suppose those who wanted educational rights for their kids or public hospitals were told to fuck off what would have happened to the development of society? i am sure there is something in this great land that you don't like or approve of. should you voice you opposition or just fuck off?

How do you ride on the back of a rich person, I'd love to find out and do it.

Wish I had half the steam from the self righteous patriots on this list I could heat my house for the winter.

Paw might have a think about their tactic.

Posters might think about their jerking knees

Big Moma Bear

How do you ride on the back of a rich person, I'd love to find out and do it.

Wish I had half the steam from the self righteous patriots on this list I could heat my house for the winter.

Paw might have a think about their tactic.

Posters might think about their jerking knees

Big Moma Bear

www.stuff.co.nz/4038278a10.html

hahahahahahahahahahahaha

エロセックス出会い

セックスセフレアダルト

エロSEX風俗

オナニー出会いエロ

セックスセフレ不倫

エッチアダルト出会い

出会いセックス素人

エッチ巨乳熟女

Rolex Sports Modelswrist watches rolex watches replica watchesfine watches casio watches watches online quartz watch. nike shoes ladies watch men's watch nike shoes running shoes Tiffany Bracelet basketball shoesjorand shoes .replica rolex watches rolex watch replica watches- fine watches- rolex datejust rolex mens watch repair oyster rolex watch.air flight ladies watch men's watch rolex submarinerrunning shoes Tiffany Bracelet rolex replica jorand shoes .rolex replica watches rolex replicanike shoes rolex replicarolex replicafake rolex replicarolex replica watchesrolex replicarolex replicarolex replica watchesrolex replicabest replica watches watches diamond watches replica watches rolex watches casio watches watches online tag watches.nike jordan shoes ladies watch luxury rolex watchnike shoes running shoes cleveland cavaliers basketball shoesjorand shoes .oyster rolex dive watches replica watches- watches for men- rolex datejust buy watch rolex mens watch repair oyster rolex watch.byron velvick ladies watch seagull watches rolex submarinerespace pub phoenix suns rolex replica jorand shoes .rolex replicawatches rolex replicanike shoes rolex replica Madsenrolex replicafake rolex replicarolex replica watchesrolex replicarolex replicashoe store nike shoesbest replica watchesnike shoes mens health mlb jerseyswomen's shoesshoe storenike shoesbest replica watchesnike shoeswomen shoesfashion shoeswomen's watches UGG shoes saleWholesale UGG shoeswomen UGG shoes saleonline UGG shoes saleWholesale UGG shoes onlineLatest UGG shoes online saleWholesale Latest UGG shoes onlineair jordan shoesreplica watchesReplica HandbagsRolex Sports Models

童貞セフレナンパ